Improving Sales Performance
Looking for sales performance strategies? Hoping to grow revenue? Join Matt Sunshine, CEO at The Center for Sales Strategy, where he and industry experts work toward a singular goal: Improving Sales Performance.
Improving Sales Performance
Caped (and Coaching) Crusaders: Building Teams Like a Talent Superhero with Allison Delagrange
In this episode, we’re shining a spotlight on what it means to lead like a Talent Superhero and how prioritizing people fuels consistent performance.
Joining Matt is Allison Delagrange, a 2X Talent Superhero and Senior Consultant at The Center for Sales Strategy.
Allison shares incredible insights, including:
- How to be a collaborative leader, not a condescending one (Hint, hint: Instead of criticizing weaknesses, empower through strengths)
- How it pays to communicate with your existing team exactly WHY you are recruiting
- And, finally, how recruiting raw talent means hiring for impact: both in what they’ll bring to the team AND how you’ll help them grow
LINKS:
Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a podcast highlighting tips and insights aimed at helping sales organizations realize, and maybe even exceed, their goals. Here we chat with thought leaders, experts and gurus who have years of sales experience from a wide range of industries. I'm your host, Matt Sunshine, CEO at the Center for Sales Strategy, a sales performance consulting company. In this episode, we're shining a spotlight on what it means to lead like a talent superhero and how prioritizing people fuels consistent performance. Joining me is Allison Delagrange, a two-time talent superhero and senior consultant at the Center for Sales Strategy.
Matt Sunshine:Allison shares incredible insights, including how to be a collaborative leader, not a condescending one, how it pays to communicate with your existing team, exactly why you are recruiting and, finally, how recruiting raw talent means hiring for impact, both in what they'll bring to the team and how you'll help them grow. Okay, Allison, I'm so excited for you to be here as a consultant at the Center for Sales Strategy, but even more special as it relates to this as a two-time talent superhero. I mean, there's not very many two-time talent superheroes, so you're in rare air and we're thrilled that you're here. Thank you for being here. Let me jump right in with the first question, From your perspective as a two-time talent superhero award winner. What are some of the things that truly set talent-focused managers apart from all the others?
Allison Delagrange:Yeah. So first let me just say this I'm so honored that I received the award two times, but we have to just put this out there. I don't actually have magical powers. The truth is that I just share the same belief that other talent-focused managers have, and that's that fundamental idea that people have strengths and non-strengths, and it's unchanging. So if I'm a superhero, it really is because CSS gave me the cape in forms of the tools to help draw people's natural talent out.
Allison Delagrange:So, that said, talent-focused managers, we have a few things I think that you would notice about us. We believe that talent is special and rare, and so that changes the way that we spend our time. So a few things I would say. One we're really focused on long-term strategy and not short-term tactics. One of our CSS clients says this really well. She says we hire for impact. We're looking for people who aren't just going to fill a seat. They're going to serve a very specific purpose in the organization. So there's that. There's also, we're proactive and not reactive. Talent isn't easy to find, but you want to have it on your team, so you have to be disciplined to always be looking for it so you can set yourself up for success. And then the other thing I would say is we're collaborative, not condescending. So instead of coaching people in the context of weakness, we guide them to maximize their strength. So when we give them feedback, it's filtered through a framework of something that they're hardwired to do.
Matt Sunshine:Man, I love that there's so many. I think everyone who's listening should just like rewind and listen to my answer again. That's loaded with great stuff. You did use the word proactive, which actually brings me to my next question. So, as a talent focus manager put yourself in that mindset you have the responsibility for managing a team while also, at the exact same time, proactively recruiting. Yeah, to me, and, I think, to a lot of people listening, that sounds like quite the juggling act. So how do you do both without having one suffer at the expense of the other?
Allison Delagrange:Yeah, it's such a good question and you're absolutely right, it is a juggling act. The first thing I would say is make sure that you communicate with your existing team about why you're recruiting. There's a fair amount of boss watching that happens. So if you tell them up front listen, I'm going to have people in here for interviews. It's not necessarily because I'm trying to replace people. It's because I believe that talent is rare and I want you to have top-notch teammates. So communicate that up front. The other part of it is it just comes down to your calendar. So when you're planning out your week, make sure that you've set aside the time for one-on-ones with your existing staff. Make sure that they have what they need, but then, just like we tell sellers to set aside time for prospecting, you've got to set aside time for recruitment. You might have to move the time, but don't completely cancel it. Sure, yeah.
Allison Delagrange:That is the time on your calendar.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, so you know. You were talking about how you're communicating with the people, with your folks, and letting them know what you're looking for and why you're doing it. I read somewhere that A players like to be around other A players and B players like to be around C's and D players. So if you want to keep your A players, you need to surround them with A players. They bring it up in the game right.
Allison Delagrange:Yeah, absolutely.
Matt Sunshine:All right, so let's talk about talent banks. What routine or what sort of rhythm would you recommend keeping for keeping great potential hires in that kind of that routine, in that orbit, even when you're not actively hiring, because you recommend always be recruiting but you're not always hiring. So how do you keep people interested even when you're not actually hiring?
Allison Delagrange:Right. So the idea of a talent bank if somebody's listening and they're not familiar about what that means, it's essentially you're building a bench of potential star players. So when you do have an opening, you're not starting from scratch. So we want to keep in touch with these people, because how often do we get a notice? That's, like you know, more than two weeks, and then if you're starting from scratch to try to find talent, you're not setting yourself up for success.
Allison Delagrange:So to build that talent bank again, it's going to go back to your calendar, setting aside time in your week for these activities, and it might be things like asking your network for referrals, going to job fairs, continuing to conduct interviews with interested candidates and just communicating to them that our company really is looking for talent. So we always want to be connected with talented people. Also, keep track of your candidates, and it doesn't have to be something fancy. It might just be an excel sheet that you're revisiting regularly, where you're keeping track of the candidates and the interaction that you've had with them. If you find somebody really, really talented, consider creating a place for them within your organization, because you may not have that opportunity again Otherwise. Keep in touch with them kind of like you would, a long-distance friendship. You know, you see what they're doing on LinkedIn. Be kind of a cheerleader for them as you notice things are happening and that way, when a position does become available, you've been in contact and it's a quick phone call.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, I think that's excellent. Yeah, I mean, again, there's so much there. But I think that analogy to like an old friend and being present in their social media and commenting and liking, making sure they realize you're there when something happens in their world, try to participate. Or when something good happens in your world, make sure to share I think those are some of those things All right. So let's switch a little bit and let's talk about how does coaching through a strengths lens you kind of through the more traditional or more common fix-it style management that we sometimes see.
Allison Delagrange:Yeah. So the simple short answer is it's so much better when you focus on the strengths, right? I mean, think about it. Do you want to work for a manager who's just always harping on you for your shortcomings, or do you want to work with a coach who understands how you're wired and can pull the best out of you? So, to be clear, though, I'm not talking about excusing bad behavior. That's a conversation for a whole different episode. But what I mean is that if we coach through a strength lens, we've got keys to unlock people's full potential. And I don't know that managers are constantly necessarily looking for what people are doing wrong, but I do think it can be tempting to make some wrong assumptions, and that might lead to more of a one-size-fits-all sort of approach. So I was thinking about this example.
Allison Delagrange:One of the talents we talk about here at CSS is this talent of competition, and it is what it sounds like People that have to win, they have to beat everyone else, and it's easy to assume that every salesperson is wired that way. So we host contests, we put up a leader board, we're tracking progress and we're seeing who's on top and who's at the bottom, and some people that are wired to be competitive. They're in it to win it and they love this. But you might notice one of your top performers. This just isn't really. They're not getting into it and it's like what's happening.
Allison Delagrange:The truth is, not every single salesperson is wired to be competitive. There's another talent that we talk about, called Achiever, and it might be that this person is wired more to be their best. They're not looking at other people's records, they're looking at their own and trying to top that. So a strengths coach, instead of saying why aren't you more competitive? And like trying to push that on them, they would say, okay, this person has their own goals, so we're going to get on the same page with what those are. We're going to set small steps along the way and we're going to celebrate like crazy when you hit those goals. So that's what I mean it's. It's looking at somebody and how they're wired and and and using that to pull out the best of them.
Matt Sunshine:I love that, I love that, I love that, I love that. So let's, let's do a real life scenario. That happens all all the time. A new role opens up unexpectedly. Maybe you've been given additional headcount from a corporate office, or maybe someone on your team has left because of a great reason because their spouse got a significant promotion that's going to require them to move halfway across the country, and so you're sad to see this person leave, but you're thrilled for their family and they're leaving right. It's not always that someone got fired or something negative. Sometimes it happens that a new role opens up unexpectedly. What's your process for ensuring that you make a great hire, quickly but thoughtfully?
Allison Delagrange:Yeah. So hopefully, going back to what we talked about a little bit ago, you've got a talent bank, so you've got a bench to pull from people that you could call and start that conversation. But if you haven't, I would still say don't hit the panic button when we get nervous about an opening, for whatever reason. Sometimes we make hasty decisions and hire someone to fill a seat and we regret it later. Take a minute, no matter what the circumstance is, to just pause and look at the new team that you have, what talent left because of that person's departure and what talent do you have left. That person's departure may mean some new opportunities with your existing team where you might be able to accelerate growth even faster, because you might. It could be that realigning roles and tasks would be a better fit with the existing talent that you have. So kind of, take inventory and decide what you need.
Allison Delagrange:We have a really great tool called the job spec and analysis sheet. You need. We have a really great tool called the Job Spec and Analysis Sheet and basically this is your chance to put down on paper what you're looking for, so the talents that you need and then also the experience and the skills. So really think about it. Don't just think about it, though. Put it down on paper before you start trying to fill that spot. That way you avoid the potential pitfall of just hiring the person that seems like they might be good and then regretting it later. So it's really a thoughtful approach about what do I need for my team.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, I want to go back to something you said earlier on a previous question. I'd written myself a note and I forgot to bring it up when we were talking about the strength lens versus the fix it style at talent focused management. One of the core concepts that we teach is this is the is the ratio of positive feedback to constructive feedback, and it's a five to one ratio. And that doesn't mean that you can't say something constructive to someone without giving them five compliments. It means that, generally speaking, over time you're giving five, you're pointing out five things that someone you're recognizing, five things that someone is doing well for every one thing that you're trying to fix or improve. Teach this at TFM and then we play a video of a salesperson doing a discovery meeting with a needs analysis, with a prospect, and we tell everybody in the room after we have gone, after we have made a big deal about this five to one ratio, and then after the video, which the video is not very long. The video is like four minutes long and we explained to everyone this is not the entire discovery meeting. This is simply the first four minutes of the discovery meeting. The discovery meeting is probably a 30 or 40 minute meeting. We're just letting you watch the first four minutes. We'd love for you to, as you watch this, write down some notes on the feedback that you would give to the salesperson.
Matt Sunshine:Sure enough, nearly 90% of the people in the room were a grader. Their list of feedback is all the things the person did wrong, that the person did wrong. You need to be talking that the person did right, and we kind of make everyone kind of chuckle about that. We're like didn't we just have a conversation about a five to one? I mean, couldn't you and I say this because I think all of us get into a habit of pointing out what isn't right instead of getting in the habit of pointing out what is being done right? And when you transition from a strengths focused, from the fix it always being in fix it mode, you do start to point out the specific things that someone did right. And, by the way, how great do you feel when someone, when you do something, and someone notices that you did it right and gives you that little compliment of hey, great job, I noticed the way you built that proposal.
Matt Sunshine:I really like those two slides that you have in the end of that PowerPoint deck. Those are, those are amazing. I'd love for you to share it with some other people, because I think you just knocked the end of that PowerPoint deck. Those are, those are amazing. I'd love for you to share it with some other people, because I think you just knocked it out of the park You're going to. That's the type of thing you go home and you tell your family, like I did so I just wanted to to get, to make sure we got to that. All right, yeah, yeah. Next question has there ever, has there ever been a that you know took a chance on someone who didn't check all the boxes but ended up being a home run? Is there a little bit of that? Sometimes you just got to take a chance just got to take a chance.
Allison Delagrange:Calculated risks, right. So let's go back to what I talked about with that job spec and analysis sheet, and if you haven't seen the tool, that's okay, because I'm going to explain it to you. Basically, on the left side of the page you're going to write down this is what I have to have when it comes to the talents have when it comes to the talents, developed skills and experience and this is what I'm not compromising on the right side is more of a nice to have when it comes to talent, skills and experience. So, as I'm thinking back through lots of interviews and years of recruitment, I can think of times when, yes, I budged on the right side of the page. You know, maybe it usually had to do with the experience side, like, maybe I really would have liked to have somebody that had B2B sales experience come on my team because it seems like they could just get right in there and pick up where maybe somebody else left off. But I ended up okay because this person had retail sales experience and they had the natural talent to do the job really well.
Allison Delagrange:I will say I cannot think of a single time where I budged on the left side on talent and it worked out well. I can't think of any. I wish I could say it's different, because you meet somebody and you're like, oh my gosh, this person's great. I know that they don't have the best work intensity, but we can get around it. And then later on you're like they just don't have enough energy to do this job and I can't change it. Why did I settle?
Matt Sunshine:Right. And what really messes it up for some people is that sometimes you see short-term success, Even if you hire someone that doesn't have the talent or they don't have what you're looking for. They don't meet what you're looking for, but you take a chance, you bring them in and they do. They get a win, right, Because of a previous relationship or something like that. They get a win. And so then you want to go oh see, but then again, are you looking for people that are just going to make a, you know, a 90 day impression, or are you looking for people that are just going to make a 90-day impression or are you looking for people that are going to make a long-term impact? And if you're looking for the impact, you go with the talent, All right.
Matt Sunshine:Last question, Last question sales leaders, sales managers listing this who want to build, they desire, they are interested in building out their own super team. They want to have the best sales organization possible, and they're not all clients of CSS. So just bear that in mind. They should be, but they're not. They should be, but they're not. That's okay, Right? What's one small habit that a manager can adopt to start becoming more talent focused in their day-to-day leadership. What would you recommend?
Allison Delagrange:Yeah, so we were talking about this earlier. We hire for impact, right. So think about it's not just the impact that that person is going to have on our organization, but it's also the impact that we as leaders get to have on them to help them realize their full potential and maybe change their lives really. And one way we get to do that is through feedback. So that's what I would encourage people listening to start incorporating into their routine, so to bring this to life.
Allison Delagrange:True confession um, there was a time in my life where I really loved watching these talent shows whether it was singing or dancing or some sort of performance where somebody gets up there, does their thing before a panel of judges and then they get feedback.
Allison Delagrange:My favorite part was when someone's raw talent was shining through and a judge would look at them and say you have what it takes to be a star, and you could see the impact on the person who was receiving the message. Their eyes light up, maybe filled with tears, they stand a little bit straighter, and so that's what we get to do as coaches when we're talent focused. So take some time each day to notice something about someone that's showing their talent. Maybe they always have two to three great solutions for every single problem. Maybe they're the hardest worker in the room they show up first and they leave last. Maybe it's just that they have an awesome smile and they lift the mood wherever they go. Whatever it is, notice it and take time to pull them aside and speak to it, and then watch what happens next. And that, right there is what talent-focused management is all about.
Matt Sunshine:I love it. That's awesome. Allison, thank you so much for joining us today and being our guest. You brought so much value. I know that people are going to just treasure every single thing that you said and put it to use, which is just absolutely awesome For everyone listening. If you want to get a hold of Allison, we will put her contact information in the show notes. Easiest way to do that is just to go to LinkedIn and connect with her there and direct message her there. I know she's highly responsive and we'll get back to you and thank you everyone for listening. We really appreciate it and we look forward to seeing you on the next episode of Improving Sales Performance. This has been Improving Sales Performance. Thanks for listening. If you like what you heard, join us every week by clicking the subscribe button. For more on the topics covered in the show, visit our website, thecenterforsalesstrategycom. There you can find helpful resources and content aimed at improving your sales performance.
