Improving Sales Performance
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Improving Sales Performance
When Top Talent Walks: How to Prepare Today for Tomorrow's Turnover with Beth Sunshine
In this episode, we’re exploring what smart sales leaders do before their top performers resign.
And joining Matt is Beth Sunshine, SVP/Talent Services at The Center for Sales Strategy.
Her contribution to the 2025 Talent Magazine highlights the importance of being ready long before turnover happens. And, here, she shares actionable ways to build that readiness into your talent strategy.
Beth brings so much wisdom to the table, including:
- Why it’s essential to protect the relationships with your people who leave, because “boomerang” employees are all too common
- How, when it comes to referrals, vague requests get vague results
- And, finally, why the only thing more expensive than making the wrong hire, is waiting too long to make the right one
LINKS:
Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a podcast highlighting tips and insights aimed at helping sales organizations realize, and maybe even exceed, their goals. Here we chat with thought leaders, experts and gurus who have years of sales experience from a wide range of industries. I'm your host, matt Sunshine, ceo at the Center for Sales Strategy, a sales performance consulting company. In this episode, we're exploring what smart sales leaders do before their top performers resign, and joining me is Beth Sunshine, senior Vice President, talent Services at the Center for Sales Strategy. Her contribution to the 2025 Talent Magazine highlights the importance of being ready long before turnover actually happens, and here she shares actionable ways to build that readiness into your talent strategy.
Matt Sunshine:Beth brings so much wisdom to the table, including why it's essential to protect the relationships with your people who leave, because boomerang employees are all too common. How, when it comes to referrals, vague requests get vague results and, finally, why the only thing more expensive than making the wrong hire is waiting too long to make the right one. All right, beth, let's jump into this. First of all, congratulations on another amazing talent magazine. Overall, it just looks incredible. I know that there are hard copies as well as digital copies, so everyone listening or watching this make sure you do whatever you can to get a copy of the talent magazine. It's phenomenal. I want to talk about your article for a second. So you open your article with this scenario that hits home for a lot of sales leaders or just leaders in general and here's the scenario your top performer quits. What should a smart manager do in those first few hours or days to really respond well to this common situation?
Beth Sunshine:Yeah, common's right, and that moment's tough, especially if it catches you off guard, which it often does. But there's no need to panic. A smart manager is going to really smoothly move into what I think of as four steps kind of the four step process to deal with that unexpected departure. First, you have to start by protecting the relationship you have with the person who's leaving. We're seeing so many boomerang incidents happen where an employee who left is willing to return when that's a high performer and they're returning after exploring other opportunities. That can be a really good thing for a company. And that only happens when they leave on good terms. So you do want to allow them to leave on a good note. And then you want to shift into learning mode. So find out what really led to their decision to leave on a good note. And then you want to shift into learning mode. So find out what really led to their decision to leave.
Beth Sunshine:People rarely leave just for a better paycheck, even though we hear that a lot. It's rarely the better paycheck that does it. If they find meaning, if they find growth and recognition where they are, they're really likely to stay. So you want to dig a little bit deeper. And then, third, you've got to stabilize your team. You've got to be visible, check in, have real conversations to smooth any ripples that may have happened. And then finally and I think this is something we're going to probably dig into today you want to turn to your talent bank. If it's well-maintained, if you have strong candidates in there waiting in the wings, it's time for you to start making moves.
Matt Sunshine:All right. So let me just recap that First thing is make sure they leave on a good note, because the boomerang does happen.
Beth Sunshine:The boomerang is real.
Matt Sunshine:It's real. Take the time to learn why it happened, stabilize and be visible with your current team and then, hopefully, you have a strong talent bank and go to your talent bank.
Beth Sunshine:I think that's one great advice.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, Great, great solid action steps that someone can take because people do leave. Action steps that someone can take because people do leave, it does happen, yeah, All right. My next question is you've seen, you've seen, you've seen specifically firsthand how many leaders wait until they're in that I'll call it a crisis mode to focus on their talent bank. Right, I mean not just know about a talent bank, but they wait until they're in crisis mode to really focus on their talent bank. Right, I mean not just know about a talent bank, but they wait until they're in crisis mode to really focus on the talent bank. So what does it look like to keep your talent bank warm? Like, how do you do that? Can you give us some like real examples of simple steps or simple actions that managers can take to keep that talent bank? Always kind of cooking.
Beth Sunshine:Yeah, I'd love to, and I'm really glad you asked this question, because this is one of the places where I see the largest gap between what managers know they should do and what they actually make the time to do. So it's a great thing to spend a few minutes on. The best leaders treat recruitment like a year-round activity. So even when they're not hiring I'll even go so far as to say especially when they're not hiring they're building their bench, and we would call that a talent bank. You want to picture an NBA team. You've got the players on the court and then you've got the others on the bench ready to be pulled into the game when needed. In business, a strong talent bank is just like that. So you've got to have that ready as your security net and you fill it up by asking for referrals from trusted contacts an annual study to search where hiring companies, hiring managers, are finding the very most elite talent, and what we're finding is they're finding them through referrals. Referrals is really powerful. That's why I listed that first. And then you want to reach out to promising people that you see on LinkedIn or that you know in the market and post on social media, if your company allows. Whatever you need to do to get people in your talent bank and the goal is, by the way, if you're not hiring, to be really transparent about that. Explain that you're not hiring, but rather building a strong talent bank of people who you believe might be a great addition to the team someday down the road. You want to get to know them. You want for them to get to know you so that, when the time is right, you'll both know it. Adding a name to a list actually can be the easy part, although, like I said, there's a big gap between knowing you need to do this and doing it, but that is the easier part.
Beth Sunshine:You really asked about how to keep that talent bank warm, and I think that can be a little more challenging. You've got to nurture those relationships. There are a bunch of ways you can do that. I think that the easiest ways would be maybe share an article that you find that they might enjoy. If they have a hobby or an interest and you find something on it, share it with them. Maybe check in occasionally with some encouragement. If you see something on LinkedIn, they're working on a project or they just received some sort of recognition, check in, encourage them, praise them and then also ask for their thoughts, ask for their ideas. There's no greater compliment you can pay to someone. It's a great way to kind of pull them into the fold a little bit. But you want to be the kind of leader that they hope calls you, calls them into the game one day. That would be the goal.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, I love the way you started. Your initial response to this question was about making a commitment, making a priority, and something that we talked about on another one of the episodes this season was this idea that you can tell what someone's priorities are by looking at their calendar. It's true.
Matt Sunshine:Right and are they recruiting every single week? Are they recruiting every single month? Are they making those deposits into their talent bank? The best thing in the world is when you're a sales leader or you're a leader in a business, regardless of your sales or not sales, but you get the green light to be able to hire and your first instinct is to go oh, I'm so excited. I have three people in my talent bank that I've been nurturing for the last six months. I can't wait to reach out. I mean, that's what you want, right, that's what you want. That's awesome. I've heard you talk about this before and I know you referenced it in your article. You talk about spotting the early warning signs of disengagement.
Matt Sunshine:Sometimes you talk about engagement, but let's talk about disengagement. Sometimes we talk about engagement, but let's talk about disengagement. What are a few subtle things that sales managers ought to be paying close attention to to pick up on that disengagement?
Beth Sunshine:Yeah, you want to watch for quiet signals like maybe someone contributing less in meetings than they used to, or withdrawing socially, showing less enthusiasm for the coaching that you're giving them. I think if you see someone with kind of a checklist mentality, where they're just going through the motions but you can tell their heart isn't really in it, that's obviously a red flag. When people leave, it often comes down to one of just a handful of things Tends to be that they lack a sense of purpose. Their job just doesn't feel meaningful. They feel undervalued, unimportant. Maybe they don't feel like they're growing or being developed, they're not receiving recognition. Those things tend to be the triggers and that's why I recommend that you regularly take a pulse of that. You want to do an annual engagement survey, for example. Have some meaningful conversations just so that you don't miss any signs I mean those signs I listed of them, kind of checking out or not participating in meetings. If you keep your eyes open, you'll see those, but you also don't have to wait for them.
Beth Sunshine:Our clients use a relationship building tool that I know you're familiar with, called the Growth Guide. It asks great questions, some of my favorites one is what's the best challenge I could give you right now. One is if I need to give you tough feedback, how do you prefer that I do that? How do you prefer to receive it? Another is when you're successful, how should I recognize that or who should I tell about that? I love the concept of asking those questions because then you're not just looking for signs of disengagement, you're really getting to the heart of the employee experience, the needs of your people, and you just have a better sense at any given time for how people are doing and you can prevent that disengagement.
Matt Sunshine:So important, just so, so, so important. I think we could have an entire podcast on that one, on that one topic. We could go deep. I want to go back to something you were talking about before. When it comes to talent bank and things like that, you mentioned the top talent report, the study that you look at every single, not the superstar study, the study that you look at every single year for the last 10 years. I know one of the. The number one thing is always referrals. Yeah, so my question is really on referrals and the language leaders need to use when they're asking for referrals. Why does specific? I can't say that word.
Beth Sunshine:That's a hard one.
Matt Sunshine:Why is it so important that managers are specific when they're asking for referrals?
Beth Sunshine:Because vague requests get vague results. That's how I usually think of it. So let's say I ask you. Let's say I'm going to be in your area and I ask you where should I eat? Where would you recommend you might name a dozen different places that you like, based on your preferences. Going to be in your area, and I ask you, where should I eat? Where would you recommend you might name a dozen different places that you like, based on your preferences. Maybe you'll just share your very favorite restaurant and say you should eat here. But if I were to say I'm going to be in your area and I'm looking for a great Indian restaurant, I want to be near a shopping area and I'd love it if they have table service rather than counter service, now you might have a very different recommendation for me and I feel like that's such a good example because it shows that the clearer I am in my question, the better you're going to be able to make a recommendation and fill my needs.
Beth Sunshine:And referrals work the exact same way when a hiring manager says something like you know, I have an open position. Do you know anyone who I should talk to or who do you know that I should talk to for this sales role. It puts a burden on the other person to guess what kind of candidate you're looking for and the answers can be all over the place. So instead I always recommend trying something more like my Indian restaurant example, where you get really specific. So you would ask like who do you know who loves solving complex problems, who builds trust quickly, who thrives in high energy environments? That kind of request will trigger a specific mental image. It kind of makes the listener go through the Rolodex in their brain and land on an actual person who meets what you need and then gets you more qualified referrals. So specificity doesn't just improve your odds, it strengthens the connection between you and the person giving the referral because they know you're clear on what you need.
Matt Sunshine:And way to show off by saying that Specificity, it's a tough word.
Matt Sunshine:That concept reminds me a lot about the concept of brainstorming. Right, and in brainstorming, a lot of people believe that in brainstorming, the problem statement should be as vague as possible, like you know. Let's have a break. In what ways might we increase sales at our store? And when you say something like in what ways might we increase sales at the store, it's too big. But if you say, in what ways might we increase our cereal sales with moms, with first-time moms between the ages of 25 and 30 years old, on Mondays, tuesdays and Wednesdays before 11 am, all of a sudden you're going to come up with these ideas because I've given you some triggers. That's right. It's the same thing when you're asking for referrals.
Beth Sunshine:That's exactly right.
Matt Sunshine:The more specific. And your Indian food example is amazing because even when you just said to me what is a place to eat, and then when you said Indian and counter service versus everything, all of a sudden you start narrow, narrow, narrow, narrow. I might not have 20 names to give you, I might only have two, but they're going to be exactly what you're looking for.
Beth Sunshine:Best way to say it. That's exactly right. It's not really about quantity Now. It's about really good referrals that are high quality that are worth your time.
Matt Sunshine:And I noticed you didn't say who do you know that's looking for a job.
Beth Sunshine:I didn't, because typically really high performers are employed. The chance that they're available at the same time you're hiring is like getting the stars to align. So ideally you want to be looking for people who have jobs but maybe they don't feel purposeful, they don't feel like they're growing, they don't feel important to their manager or to the company, they're lacking those things and they might be willing to leave.
Matt Sunshine:Excellent, All right. Next question From your perspective, how closely are turnover preparedness and strong culture connected? I mean, does one or can one really exist without the other?
Beth Sunshine:Yeah, they are incredibly intertwined, for sure. A strong culture creates a kind of environment where people don't want to leave, and it gives them purpose, connection, pride in their work. But even in the healthiest cultures, turnover happens and that's where preparedness comes in. So having a strong talent bank gives you the confidence to respond quickly and strategically when someone exits. Instead of scrambling, instead of settling for someone who maybe isn't the ideal person for the job, you can make thoughtful choices and that also signals to the entire team that you value excellence.
Beth Sunshine:So you can see how these go hand in hand. It also helps you just hold a higher standard in general. When you know you've got great people waiting in the wings it's exactly what you said earlier it almost can feel like a good thing, but you're less likely to tolerate poor performance or poor culture fits. You create a workplace where talent is recognized, where expectations are clear and people know that they're part of something that matters and it just it raises the bar because you've got these great performers on the bench if you need them. The strong culture keeps people engaged. So turnover preparedness ensures you stay strong when that change inevitably happens and the culture plays a role and they reinforce the other. They go hand in hand.
Matt Sunshine:So earlier in the conversation, in fact the way we led off the first question I asked had to do with a top performer quits and what advice do you have for a smart manager? What should they do in those first few hours and you talked about? You gave those four really steps, you know. Make sure they leave on a good note and learn why and stabilize and make yourself visible as well as look at your talent bank. I want to still stay on that topic of a top performer leaves suddenly. When that happens, oftentimes there is an urge by the manager to make a fast hire, like not I need to fill the seat now, I want to put somebody in there now. That feeling of making a fast hire is real. What's your advice to that manager for slowing it down just a minute because you want to avoid that panic hire?
Beth Sunshine:Yeah, it's a good question, because I think that's human nature. It's really tempting to want to fill that role fast. You might be getting pressure from above you certainly have pressure just in the business to have a spot filled, but a bad hire is going to cost you a lot more than waiting a little bit longer to find the right one. Bad hires hurt revenue, they slow down teams, they frustrate top performers, they damage your culture, and managers end up spending more time fixing problems than developing talent like they could, I often say. The only thing more expensive than making the wrong hire, though, is waiting too long to make the right one. And that brings us, I think, to the advice I really wanna share, which is ideally, you wanna have a very proactive approach to recruiting. You wanna start with building and nurturing a talent bank, so you don't have to make that panic hire. You don't have to have that scramble feeling.
Beth Sunshine:So my advice is know what excellence looks like and draw a line in the sand for yourself. Don't settle. Know the behaviors you need and actually hold out for them. Use a validated assessment so that you have a clear read on the strengths and the weaknesses of your job candidates, because they're going to have both, because we all do. And in the age of AI, oh my gosh, resumes are so polished, interviews are so polished. You have to get past all of that and get a real read on the behaviors you're likely to see from people if you were to hire them. And then you want to look to your talent bank for people who match and, like I said before, don't settle. And if there isn't a match in your talent bank, then wait, because it's better to hold out a few weeks than to hire the wrong person. But the cost of a bad hire is always higher than the cost of taking a week or two to get it right.
Matt Sunshine:Absolutely All right. Last question for you If a manager listening today, somebody listening to this podcast or watching this podcast today, wants to really get ahead of this potential turnover, that's inevitable, it's going to happen. So they want to get ahead of this potential turnover, that's inevitable, it's going to happen. So they want to get ahead of whatever turnover is going to happen. What's the one thing they can start doing this week to be prepared?
Beth Sunshine:Okay, this is an easy one, so I'm going to give you a three-step, though here's what they can do. So I'm going to give you a three step, though here's what they can do. Number one spend three minutes writing down what excellence looks like in a role that they might need to fill in the future. So you're just writing down behaviors like build rapport really quickly with new people or able to multitask lots of complex things at the same time without making mistakes, whatever. Three minutes make a list of just a few things that you know excellence requires, and then make a second list and in this case it's a list of five people who you trust maybe friends, neighbors, co-workers of the past, anyone in the business community five people and ask them who do you know who? And then list those behaviors who do you know who is able to build rapport quickly? Send those today, today, make this happen today and then, as you start getting names back, reach out to those people and start building your telebank, and then you'll be ready.
Matt Sunshine:Excellent. That's such great advice, and I think that anybody listening to this should be in having the mindset of I don't know when turnover is going to happen, but I know eventually it's going to happen for the right reasons or the wrong reasons, it doesn't matter. Turnover happens. Getting prepared for that and being ready for that is just incredibly important. So thank you so much for your contribution. You're a wealth of knowledge when it comes to this stuff. So thank you and thanks again for the Talent Magazine. It looks absolutely amazing.
Beth Sunshine:I'm so glad. I'm so glad, and thank you and thanks again for the talent magazine. It looks absolutely amazing. I'm so glad, yeah, and thank you for having me.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, so if anyone wants to get a hold of Beth, the best thing to do is to connect with her on LinkedIn and then direct message her. She's highly responsive when people do that. We'll put Beth's contact information in the show notes and everyone. Thank you again for for joining the podcast and listening in or watching. We really do appreciate it. We love the comments and the feedback that we get from everybody. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you on the next episode of Improving Sales Performance. This has been Improving Sales Performance. Thanks for listening. If you like what you heard, join us every week by clicking the subscribe button. For more on the topics covered in the show, visit our website, thecenterforsalesstrategycom. There you can find helpful resources and content aimed at improving your sales performance.
