Improving Sales Performance
Looking for sales performance strategies? Hoping to grow revenue? Join Matt Sunshine, CEO at The Center for Sales Strategy, where he and industry experts work toward a singular goal: Improving Sales Performance.
Improving Sales Performance
Smart Hiring, Smarter Sales: Unlocking Natural Talent in Your Recruitment with Trey Morris
In this episode, we’re diving into how identifying and leveraging innate talent (rather than just experience) can help leaders build stronger, higher-performing sales teams.
And helping Matt unpack it all is Trey Morris, VP/Senior Consultant/Director of Training Innovation at The Center for Sales Strategy. Trey’s article in the 2025 Talent Magazine explores how smart hiring decisions can transform team performance, and, here, he brings those insights to life with practical strategies and real-world examples.
Trey shares so many eye-opening tips, like:
- Why hiring for raw potential often yields better results than hiring for polish or experience alone
- How to spot innate talent during the interview process using tools like structured assessments
- And, finally, why, every time you interact with anyone, you should ask yourself: “Is this someone that I could I add to my Talent Bank?”
LINKS:
Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a podcast highlighting tips and insights aimed at helping sales organizations realize, and maybe even exceed, their goals. Here we chat with thought leaders, experts and gurus who have years of sales experience from a wide range of industries. I'm your host, matt Sunshine, ceo at the Center for Sales Strategy, a sales performance consulting company. In this episode, we're diving into how identifying and leveraging innate talent, rather than just experience, can help leaders build stronger, higher-performing sales teams. And helping me unpack it all is Trey Morris, vice President, senior Consultant, director of Training Innovation at the Center for Sales Strategy.
Matt Sunshine:Trey's article in the 2025 Talent Magazine explores how smart hiring decisions can transform team performance, and Trey shares so many eye-opening tips like why hiring for raw potential often yields better results than hiring for polish or experience alone, how to spot innate talent during the interview process using tools like a structured assessment. And, finally, why, every time you interact with anyone, you should ask yourself is this someone that I could add to my talent bank? All right, trey, let's jump right in. So in your article which, by the way, was a great article In your article, you made a really strong case for hiring based on innate talent rather than just over past experiences, thinking like a sales leader or think in the mind of a sales leader. Can you walk us through what that really looks like when a sales leader is making that hiring decision?
Trey Morris:Yeah. So I think that anyone who's been in management more than 15 minutes has made bad hires. And usually that happens because we get excited about the opportunity to bring on a experienced salesperson from another competitor across the street, down the road, wherever and those people turn out to be horrible hires and what we find out quickly is that experience doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be successful.
Trey Morris:I think that, as an industry, sales is really bad at confusing success with talent, that we think that if they're successful, oh, they must be talented, but the reality is is, if you're at the right company at the right time, with the right region or account list, you can be really successful and actually not be very good, not be very talented, and so when you pick that person up and you move them to your organization, they don't have everything that made them successful and they fail.
Trey Morris:And so when you're hiring, what you want to look for is natural ability, natural talent, and I'm going to say it over and over again today you need an assessment that's going to scientifically measure natural ability and natural talent that you can use to build on, to make sure that they have the skills and the training and the, eventually, the experience to do the job properly. And if you do that, if you hire talent and then you build on that, you train them, you help them grow, they're going to be good, maybe great, possibly the best ever salespeople that you've hired, rather than just hoping that experience translates to the new place.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, well said, that's good. That's a lot of really good information in that response. So I want to think about again from the sales leader's point of view and specifically thinking about the interview and selection process, like not after that, but in the interview and selection process. When you think about the difference between potential and performance right, there's the performance aspect, but there's also the potential aspect. How should a sales leader or sales manager balance those two factors as they're going through the interview process and as they're going through the final selection?
Trey Morris:process and a perfect opportunity.
Trey Morris:You would want someone that has potential or talent and they have performance right, so you have a successful salesperson that's also naturally talented.
Trey Morris:But the reality is is those are really hard to find, and if you do, they're probably really happy where they are and so, unless something bad has happened at that other organization, it's going to be hard to recruit them to your place.
Trey Morris:And so really what happens is you have the choice of experienced salesperson or someone without experience that hasn't been selling, and you're hoping that they have potential to be great because they're naturally talented. And the only way that you can really know that is if you hire using an assessment and then you find out if that talent is going to translate into the role that you're hiring for the culture of the organization and, honestly, if you think you're going to work well with those people. I personally I would rather hire on potential when I know that they're talented, because then I can train them in my ways in how I want them to be. They're not going to bring a lot of baggage or bad habits that experienced salespeople often have, and so potential is better in the long run than performance if you're truly hiring a talented person that you can build into that long-term performance leader.
Matt Sunshine:Makes me think about. You know, like, when you we see a commercial or you get a, you get an email about an investment possibility and they tell you about what this type of investment has done in the past, and then there's always the asterisk. You know, past performance not indicative of of of future performance. It's like salespeople should come with that too. Yes, past performance is not.
Trey Morris:We both know people we've hired that should have had that disclaimer.
Matt Sunshine:Right, you were great. I know you were great. What happened to that person? I had the right product with the right, all the things All right. So you've mentioned assessment a couple of times. I think we both agree that having a validated assessment to help you make a decision as one piece of the puzzle in making a decision is extremely valuable. Obviously, there are lots of good assessments out there. We're going to be biased to the one that we have.
Trey Morris:Ours is the best strategy. Let's just be honest Ours is the best.
Matt Sunshine:But if you can't use ours, you use something. Okay, yes, something's better than nothing. Something's better than nothing, all right, so not talking about assessments for a second. What are some of your go-to strategies for identifying innate talent in an interview, especially if you're interviewing someone that doesn't have a long track record? What sort of questions or what do you look for? Kind of give us some insight.
Trey Morris:So I'm going to look for past performance, even if that performance and that experience isn't related to sales, because I want to see someone who has a strong work ethic. Well, how do I know that? When did you start working? What did you do? How many jobs have you had? How did you do in those jobs? And you're going to see work ethic bubble up of.
Trey Morris:Oh, I started working when I was 15 and I was a caddy at a country club or I worked at Chick-fil-A and I worked, you know, 30 hours a week, while I also was a leader of the you know whatever club in high school and I played football and they're really involved and really active. I'm looking for that, that little bit of grit I'm looking for. I'm looking for someone who wants to work hard. I want someone that has experience doing that. I want people that are, that are outgoing, that are easily are able to talk to people, that are not afraid to have a conversation.
Trey Morris:I was known and you know better than anybody I like to hire little mini trays. They're a little loud, they were a little obnoxious, they were a little aggressive, because to me, that's what I was looking for and one of the things the talent assessment has shown me is there are a lot of really great salespeople that aren't like me, and I need to look in all of the areas, and so some of the things that I look for is are they competitive, like, did they play sports? Did they work? Did they have multiple jobs? Did they put in long hours? Are they smart? Right, because you smart and picks up things. They're going to understand our products or our services. I'm looking for people that that are inquisitive, people that that love to solve problems, people that love to ask questions. Those are the things that I look for in an interview and, ironically, the sales assessments has those same characteristics and natural talents that we're looking for as well.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, you know, as you were talking, I was kind of going through my mind what are the things I, what are some of the things I would look at? A lot of them are very similar, but some other ones that came up is I look at how do they follow up after the meeting. Is I look at how do they follow up after the meeting? That's a great one. Or, how do they show up? Do they show up on time or are they late? Or, if it's a virtual meeting, what's their background look like? Right, I mean, how serious are they An unmade bed.
Trey Morris:Right, that's a deal breaker for me. Right, that's a deal breaker.
Matt Sunshine:Blur your back First of all. Make your bed. Second, blur your background. It's not that hard.
Matt Sunshine:I mean, when they tell stories I always look for do they say we or I? And if they say we, I wonder how involved they really were. Or are they taking credit for things that other people did? Versus I, I always like to say why are you interested in this job? Because I think it sorts to the part of the job I listen for. Is what they're describing more of an account management role or is what they're describing more of a sales role? Do they own the word sales? Are they comfortable with those word sales?
Matt Sunshine:I think, between what you just said and what I just said, we probably have a really good list of ways to identify. Start to identify if someone has the talent. All right. So let's dive into this talent assessment thing. You talked about the power of using talent assessments in the article. You've talked about it here. How can managers use those tools without making the process feel robotic or impersonal? How, how, how do you bring those things to like, like? So someone takes the assessment and they're like boy. I'm glad I took that assessment type of thing yeah.
Trey Morris:so I think it depends on who you're interviewing is how you set up the assessment. So if it's someone that doesn't have a lot of experience and and we and we recommend to to our clients that they should have anyone they meet that looks remotely interesting, take the assessment, because you never know where you can find a diamond in the rough, someone who's naturally talented. When you talk to bartenders and waiters and the guy that's selling you your car or selling something at Dillard's right, I mean, that's where you do it, and for those people I always say you know, have you ever thought about going into sales? We have this really cool assessment that takes about 35 minutes and you'll know. And we'll know if you are naturally gifted in sales and you could have a whole new career to take that, I think, for that. It's an opportunity to see if they're good at it and you would share that top talent report with them.
Matt Sunshine:So that they can actually see. Hey, I took this assessment. This is what I have.
Trey Morris:Now, if you're talking to someone who's experienced they've been selling, and it doesn't matter if they're selling in your industry or another industry, but they have experience I always say we have everyone who applies for a position here take our sales talent assessment so that we understand your natural talents, so that, when you are here, we know what talents to coach, so that you are the best version of yourself.
Trey Morris:Yeah, and then they're like oh okay, that makes sense, because you know, you kind of assume that when you start, when you're here, well, they may not be here, but I'm not going to tell them that. But if they are talented, this is very helpful for us.
Matt Sunshine:I've heard you say this. I've heard our talent analysts at CSS say this. I've heard lots of the consultants say this Everyone has talents, right, an assessment is just measuring a few of them, right, but everyone has talents and all that we're all trying to do on both sides of this equation is say do the talents that you have fit with the job that we have? Like, is it going to be a square peg in a square hole? I mean, that's what we're going for. But the other thing that I've heard people say and I know I've heard you say this too is the more real that you can make this. You know, we're trying to allow people to soar with their strengths right and really set people up for success and the very best. Never refer to it as a test, because it's not a test, it's not a pass fail. It is is. It is just an identification of what talents that you have. It's not doesn't mean like, oh, I mean, I know lots of people that are not talented to be in sales, but they are talented to run organizations.
Trey Morris:Oh, yes, they're different talents.
Matt Sunshine:Right, and they'd be the first to say, oh, you know what? I am not, I don't have what it takes to do that, but I know how to do this. Everyone can't do everything. No, no, all right. So I'm going to ask you a question and I need you to think about how you're going to answer. Okay, without giving away names or locations Uh-oh, Because I know the story. Can you share a story where hiring for talent raw talent over maybe polish and experience really paid off? Maybe it was someone that surprised you or maybe they outperformed expectations, but I know in your role you get the opportunity, because some of our clients are heavily invested in hiring people with little to no experience, just with talent, and you get to work with some of those clients. I bet you have an example that you can think of of someone who didn't have the polish or experience. They had a ton of talent. Tell us the story.
Trey Morris:So I have two stories that I want to bring up. One is the positive use of it and one is the I didn't use it properly. The one where I didn't use it properly I had a gentleman that interviewed with me long ago and he came in and within five minutes I was bored to death, like he wasn't engaging, he wasn't exciting, he didn't talk a lot, he wasn't salesy, he wasn't like me at all. Right, and with after five minutes I was like, hey, do you wanna take a tour of the studio? And then you take him and show him around. I'm like, okay, good to see you, thanks, bye, he goes. Well. He interviewed with our sister station and they hired him and he became an absolute rock star and was such a great salesperson and it was a real eye-opening moment for me that I need to look past my bias against quiet people and people that aren't loud and people that aren't salesy and like super outgoing and I was like, oh, okay, that's a good, that's a really good lesson.
Trey Morris:Now, on the positive side, I had I never hired anyone officially using the talent assessment because it didn't exist when I was hiring hiring salespeople. So now I get to do it through my clients and I have an example of a client that was looking for a salesperson and they found a woman, probably in her thirties, who had no experience. She had been a stay-at-home mom and she had taken the assessment and the assessment was off the charts, super talent. I mean super talent, like across the board talented. And I had one manager was like we have to hire this woman. Did you see how talented she was? And we had the other person was like she's a stay-at-home mom, she's never sold, she's not that dynamic. I mean, her interview was okay but it wasn't great.
Trey Morris:And I sat down and I told him the story about this other guy that I didn't hire and I was like, based on this talent and based on my conversation with her, I think she's going to be really, really good. She may not do it the way that you and I would do it, but she's going to do it. They ended up hiring her and she has been their top salesperson for six straight years. She's never missed a budget. She is their top biller by a mile and she's one of those reps that if you need new business and you need something to come in so that you can hit budget, you can call her and she will find it and she will close it?
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, pretty impressive, all right. So what are some of the early indicators, early performance indicators that a sales manager, sales leader, should be looking for, watching for to know that they made the right hire.
Trey Morris:So for me, it's those initial days and weeks where I'm looking for someone who is just all in. They're passionate about it, they jump in, they're eating up every bit of training, they're talking to everybody, they're asking questions, they're chomping at the bit to get started. They're using all of their connections and relationships, they're building out target account lists and they're ready to go. They're doing all the things that we ask them to do. And then, once they start with the outbound activity and trying to get meetings, it's all about activity how many people they're calling, how many meetings they're getting, how many proposals they're doing. Now they may not necessarily close everything initially, because they're still learning, they don't know everything, but there's activity, there's volume, there's excitement, there's passion. To me, that is the best sign that you've made a good hire, because you have activity, you have desire, you have effort. All you have to do now is fine tune and train the skill to be successful. All right.
Matt Sunshine:Last, question For sales leaders looking to improve or evolve their hiring approach right now, right now this year, this month. What's one simple kind of a mind shift this month? What's one simple kind of a mind shift mindset shift that they can do or what's one simple habit that they can start to use that could make a big difference?
Trey Morris:Look for talent everywhere. Every time you interact with anyone, you should have your radar up, as could this be someone that I could add to my talent bank. And if you have the talent assessment, take the talent assessment to know if they're talented to do the job and fill that talent bank all day, every day, because if you've got a strong talent bank, you have a lot of people in that from a lot of different walks of life, with a lot of different experiences, and they're talented. We know they're talented. You will be set and you will have a bench that you're going to fill out, a sales team that is going to be good, talented and ready to go, and that's what you need to hit budgets today.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, I think you're exactly right. I've said it before we do talent-focused management. We make this point at TFM every single time we run that workshop that having a robust talent bank, making deposits to your talent bank every single week, is the best habit that you can imagine. If, 52 a year, you made a deposit to talent bank, the greatest feeling in the world we've said it before the greatest feeling in the world is to have someone that you believe in so much that you want to hire and not have room to hire them on your team when that happens. That's the greatest feeling in the world as a sales leader.
Matt Sunshine:Trey, thank you so much for joining us. As always, you've been a plethora of information. I'm sure that people are going to listen to this multiple times because you loaded in so many great key takeaways. If anyone wants to get a hold of Trey, the best thing that you can do is connect with him on LinkedIn and message him. That way. I know he's highly responsive. That way, we'll also put all the information in the show notes, and thank you everyone for joining and listening, and we look forward to seeing you on the next episode ofalesstrategycom. There you can find helpful resources and content aimed at improving your sales performance.
