Improving Sales Performance
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Improving Sales Performance
Focusing on Sales Activities that Drive Performance with Jeff Clewett & Emily Estey
In this episode, we’re discussing how to ensure your sales teams are focused on the right sales activities to drive performance.
And joining me to help break it all down is Jeff Clewett, Director of Sales at Bonneville Denver, and Emily Estey, VP/Senior Consultant here at CSS.
Both offer some amazing points to think about, like:
- Why too many sales managers treat everything as an emergency when they need to be prioritizing and filtering the right information for their teams
- How target drives can help put a spotlight on the activities that actually make you money
- And, finally, if you’re coaching Michael Phelps, you’re not going to teach him to run.
LINKS:
Jeff Clewett
Emily Estey
Matt Sunshine
The Center for Sales Strategy
Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a podcast highlighting tips and insights aimed at helping sales organizations realize, and maybe even exceed, their goals. Here we chat with thought leaders, experts and gurus who have years of sales experience from a wide range of industries. I'm your host, matt Sunshine, ceo at the Center for Sales Strategy, a sales performance consulting company. In this episode, we're discussing how to ensure your sales teams are focused on the right sales activities to drive performance. Joining me to discuss that and so much more, is Jeff Clewett, director of Sales at Bonneville, denver, and Emily Estey, vp, senior Consultant, here at CSS.
Matt Sunshine:Both offer some amazing points to think about, like why too many sales managers treat everything as an emergency when they need to be prioritizing and filtering the right information for their teams, how target drives can help put a spotlight on the activities that actually make you money. And finally, if you're coaching Michael Phelps, you're not going to teach him how to run With that. Let's start the conversation conversation. So, jack, in your experience, what are the biggest challenges that sales leaders face in keeping their teams really focused on the right activities? Not just work, but the right activities.
Jeff Clewett:Inherently, it's the leadership themselves. I think we can pose or be the biggest hurdle to communication and clear focus because of all the agendas and things we have to focus on, whether it be hearing things from other levels of leadership, other strategies that are being implemented on the fly. Our goal is to make sure we keep horse blinders on our teams and make sure that we get to decipher where the real focus should be, regardless of what's changing on spreadsheets or on charts. We got to make sure that our team is always focused, based on what we're telling them is important.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, emily, anything to add to that?
Emily Estey:I would just. I think that a lot and I think it's hard, but I think a lot of sales managers kind of treat everything as an emergency. You know, everything that pops up has to be dealt with. Right now there's just a prioritization that needs to happen with every bit of information that they're getting. And then there's also, like a dam that needs to happen, like what am I going to deal with and what am I going to move forward to with my team? You know what I mean, like they're I going to deal with and what am I going to move forward to with my team. You know what I mean, like what they're kind of the filter, so it doesn't all have to go downhill, but what does. So I think it's prioritization and filtering the right information.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, it does. It reminds me of, in TFM, the whole bell ringing exercise. There's a lot of noise coming at us all the time. Yeah, all right. So, jeff, can you share some real life ways, some practical ways that either you or that you've seen others? How sales leaders leverage data. I know you guys, where you are, you have a lot of data. So how do you leverage that data to guide the sales team towards the best actions to take, the most effective actions to take?
Jeff Clewett:Yeah, well, just like you know I compared a lot to baseball. Right, for those fans out there who know Saber metrics, the advanced stats and whatnot, you know a lot of the old school baseball coaches go well, I still coach with gut and feel and everything else, and I think there's credence to both. The data is informative. It shows you where you might be getting slowed down at a certain level of the process. So where I think the data makes the most sense for sales leadership is it's really guiding the areas you need to focus on, you need to train up or you need to really hone in on to make sure that the obstacles are not there in the process.
Jeff Clewett:You know we talk about busy activities versus productive activities, and what the data would tell us is you know volume is not the goal here. We often refer to as empty calories. You're just doing stuff to do stuff. It doesn't make sense. You know, if you have an outcome in mind, we're in the outcomes business. What's the next step? You know sales is all about inertia and that data helps us inform where we're getting plugged up and where we can make some action to get past it.
Emily Estey:Yeah.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, empty calories is fantastic. I love that.
Emily Estey:Right, and that's going to bubble up right, If you're tracking sales process and things aren't moving forward. We know what we're doing. We're doing something else.
Emily Estey:You're clearly busy but you're not doing the right thing. And just to Jeff's point, I love that. It's like. One of the things I love most about a target drive is being able to track activity and then assign. You know, oh, we clearly need skill development, either as a group or individually. You know, that's one of the things I love about, you know, target drives in general is we can, we can. There's so much learning that comes out of it.
Jeff Clewett:Yeah, and Matt, I've heard you say it many times before you know you go home on a Friday and you're driving home you go what? How do I know I had a good week?
Matt Sunshine:Everyone deserves to know if they had a good week.
Jeff Clewett:Everyone wants to know, before they go, eat all those calories that actually matter. Being a father of three, I eat many calories. Maybe that's why it comes to mind, but yeah, it's. What outcomes did you achieve this week? Not, what did you do what did you accomplish?
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, very few people are sitting around doing nothing, right? So it's like let's take that off the table. Everyone's doing a lot, everyone's busy, very productive. But, emily, you brought up target drives, so let's delve into target drives a little bit deeper. While target drives can certainly be a big motivator we've all seen target drives be the motivator they can be Sometimes, though, they can lead to focus. They can lead people to believe that the focus is on quantity over quality. So how can sales leaders utilize target drives effectively while still making sure that they're encouraging the really good, tried and true selling practices? Who wants it? Go ahead, annie?
Emily Estey:I was just thinking about. You know, we did a target drive, a really very successful target drive, in Denver last year and I think part of what we did you know Jeff was hyper focused on making sure that we were talking to quality prospects and I actually came into the market and helped the teams identify. You know, they came to me with their list and we were like yes, no, yes, no, yes, yes. You know these are the, so really diving in. If you're not starting, this is going to sound obvious, but if you're not starting with the quality, you're not, it's just not going to work. And I I feel like by really choosing the right prospects, that target drive went really by the AEs choosing the right prospects, that that target drive went really well.
Emily Estey:It started on the right foot.
Jeff Clewett:Yeah, I think it's from what we learned last year and years past of doing this and they've all been successful. Every time we've instituted a target drive is again it goes back to question one right. We're getting everyone back on one singular focus. At this point in time, the quality of who you're talking to. It's almost like a confessional right, emily, where we get them in there. We're talking and you see, about five of the targets that were on there for three months just disappear. Yeah, suddenly it's go time. Now you're training and you're hoping to instill the actions and the processes where your team's always acting that way and always following the target process. But to really put that spotlight on it, for a 12 week period or however long, you want to conduct target drive, it's truth serum, right, and then you get out of the I'm just doing this to look good or to check a box and it turns into the actions and activities are actually going to make me some money and help my clients.
Emily Estey:That's right, and it also, I think one of the things that it really does is it helps highlight those parts of the sales process where we really can, where our AEs can really move the needle, and that's in the connect phase, like, speed up that part of the process. You can speed it up and you can. You can then find out if the client's going to engage or not with you, which is great, Great Fine. But you're like, okay, you have, you know, what we would do is like do you think you can, you, you can close this client in 12 weeks and they'll be like well, no, like well, why not? Because you're not speeding up the process. Where you can speed it up, you know, by doing a better needs analysis, by advising the client, you know, I don't know. I think it just really highlights the steps of the process and you know Jeff's team does a great job with those, so I think they like it too.
Jeff Clewett:Sorry, matt, I was just going to add that what often gets lost in a target drive and the reason we love to do them earlier on in the year is the dividends that pay out after the 12 weeks. Because for 12 weeks, just getting that singular focus again early on in a year, you know you may not have someone convert in 12 weeks but you're doing everything you can and you're flipping out more people and you're working harder towards that main singular objective. You know, months from now you're having conversations with these target level quality accounts that maybe weren't ready yet or they have all the other boxes checked. So you're doing the work early to pay dividends later in the year as well, which I love about the target drive.
Matt Sunshine:I have two things to add. One of my favorite because I can. One of my favorite things is when, when I'm asked to be brought in to kind of help vet whether or not something is a good target account or not and I listened to the stories of this is such a good target account I've actually had them identified for over a year that blah, blah, blah and I just usually just say okay, so what's going to happen? Oh, you've tried for a year to get an appointment with no luck, and I know you've tried what's going to happen over the next two to three weeks. That makes you believe all of a sudden, because we said target drive, that you're going to get an appointment. I think you probably did a good job for the last year. I think you have been doing a good job. So what's about to happen?
Jeff Clewett:Well, and you know what I find funny about that is, I think, as a kid, getting a brand new skateboard. You don't want to ride it because you want to get all scratched up right. They find this target. They work so hard because they're not easy, right it's?
Jeff Clewett:not if we all did it, we'd all be on a beach somewhere, right, right, it would be easy. It's not easy, but once they get them, they're afraid they'll burn them out with the touches. They're afraid. But then, when you actually have them go, okay, it's time to do the touches. It's time for target drive. Some of those come to fruition because now you're following the rest of the process.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah.
Jeff Clewett:Baby, guarding it from from ruining this opportunity that works so hard to identify.
Matt Sunshine:So I think I've been waiting for the right moment. Ok, one other thing, though, a little pet peeve of mine that I'll share sales, sales pet peeve. That speaks to speeding up the process, and I think that if everybody adopted this, it would speed up the process. Why do salespeople find it necessary to say, well, how about we get together same time next week? I don't understand why same time next week is allowed. Why not same time tomorrow? Why, right?
Matt Sunshine:I think we as salespeople have a comfort level with, okay, today's Wednesday or today's Thursday, whatever. How about next Thursday we meet? Why not tomorrow? Or why not? I mean slow kills deals, speed it up. Let's not lose contact. I mean, you know people always, you know analogies about dating and stuff are always sometimes, but when you first start dating someone, you don't go weeks in between each date. Right, you go, let's see each other tomorrow, let's see each other again tomorrow, and I think we need to. That could speed up the sales process a lot, so that what we're talking about now is activity. So let's stay focused on activities for a second. The right activities require consistent action. What strategies can do? You guys think and Jeff, I'll come to you on this one what sales. What strategies can sales leaders use to create a culture within their team where focusing on the right activities not just any activities, but the right activities becomes a habit, a daily habit?
Jeff Clewett:Well, here we try to focus on, you know, the old carrot or the stick, right.
Jeff Clewett:We don't want to be in the business of punitive actions or anything like that.
Jeff Clewett:We want to reinforce good behaviors and that's what builds the culture and builds habits, right. So for us, it's about identifying those things that we think move the ball the fastest and the most. Things, like you identified, Matt, about the speed in which you can get back to a client or stay in front of them, or the amount of proposals you can get out versus the amount of calls you're making. There's certain actions that really tell the story and for us to highlight them every week in sales meetings, to have a scoreboard that shows people doing a great job in these certain areas. That may not hit the dollars yet, but they show the KPIs that lead to dollars more so than the volume, the empty calorie activities of calls and emails and the rest of that stuff. So really focusing in and highlighting and rewarding the behavior we want to see, just like any good habits. You want to have little, little check marks along the way that you feel like you're on the right path and you're being rewarded for it. That's important to us.
Matt Sunshine:Emily, what are your thoughts on this?
Emily Estey:I think you know, I think it comes in. We're going to start some of this work in Denver, but I think it comes back to, you know, really focused IFMs on the right behaviors. So the things that we're the things that we're talking about are what our people are going to pay attention to, right. I think it's that simple. So you know, and I get I'm not trying to Pollyanna this because I know there's emergencies I know there's things that pop up, but it's really the job of a sales manager to be like okay, is this, is this the? You know? And with Jeff, it starts with the objective Is this going to get us, you know, the farthest, fastest, like, is this activity right now? Check that box, I think is really smart. But I also think you know what we talk about is what our people are going to do, and I think that starts with an IFM. But that's, you know, that's my humble opinion. Talking about target accounts, talking about, you know, growth in key accounts, but yeah, that's what I would.
Matt Sunshine:Whatever the drumbeat is of the sales manager is, is what the is what the sales department does.
Emily Estey:Exactly.
Matt Sunshine:Exactly In almost every situation that that we look at that, we see that we talk about on this, on this podcast. If it's the if it's what's important to the sales manager, becomes what's important to the team. All right, so, speaking about what's uh, speaking on the topic of what's important to the sales manager, one of the things that's important to sales managers is developing their people. So how can leaders personalize their approach to coaching and giving guidance so that they ensure each team member is focusing on the activities that they're best suited to their strengths? How do you do that Like in real life, irl, as they say, in real life. How does that happen? You're so hip, matt, I am. You're so hip, matt, I am.
Jeff Clewett:It's me.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah exactly.
Jeff Clewett:Well, I think a big step of that is the people I'm talking to on this call. I mean, css has a model with the STA platform to understand people's personality types, their strengths, their weaknesses. We've always talked about I think of Beth when I think about this. Matt is, you know the Michael Phelps philosophy. You're not going to teach him to run if he's a great swimmer. So I think Emily and I have been on many calls and we talked through it and we strategize around that data.
Jeff Clewett:So, going back to the data points and go well, this person has a high sense of achievement. So let's find a way for them to feel the victories and feel they're accomplishing something every step of the way. But maybe somebody else, they're really driven by competition how we put them in a model or some kind of setting where they feel they're competing against their peers and they're feeling that motivation. So the individual strategies is critical. You know, sales is not one size fits all. Everyone has different strengths, everyone has different weaknesses. But really it's about leaning into the strengths, not addressing the weaknesses. You know, if you're Michael Phelps, we're going to go swim or swim hard, versus telling you to go jump or run a lap or something else. What would you think, emily?
Emily Estey:I was just thinking about.
Emily Estey:We did coaching with one of Jeff's sales managers and she has an innate sense of talent and she was motivating people like naturally, like based on, which was super, super cool, Really cool.
Emily Estey:Yeah, I know it's a superpower, but I did like a few coaching sessions with her and it was just validating what she already was doing, which was really powerful for her as a manager to know that she was kind of doing the right things, naturally, based on people's individual talents. But you know, Jeff and I talk about this a lot Like we are really engaged in the talent piece and I think and so are his managers Like they really want to find out how they can motivate the team based on consistent talent across the board, but really focused on how to how to manage individuals, and I just think it makes people feel really seen, you know, if, if, if you're really, if you're really talking to people how they want to be talked to. That's broad, but I think it really um, make sure people feel like you care about them, um, and that you're motivating them in a way that's really just easy for them to comply Right, Just easy for them to do.
Jeff Clewett:I love that you brought in validation there too, because I think that's a big piece of it. You know, am I doing the right things? It's not always an exercise and you need to do it completely differently, but if you're a manager and you're struggling with certain people on certain things, knowing there's a lever there that presents itself that you can pull you know exactly that that will have an impact is incredibly, uh, helpful and gives you a lot of hope that you're heading in the right direction.
Matt Sunshine:I'll add a couple of things to this. This point Number one telling people what to do is not coaching them Right. It's telling people what to do, and sometimes and sometimes that's necessary, but that's not coaching. So we should distinguish between two of them.
Matt Sunshine:And one of the biggest and one of the best ways to coach people but often the most underutilized way is to acknowledge what they're doing right, to share with them the good stuff that they're doing.
Matt Sunshine:And we see this in TFM and talent focused management, the workshop where we ask people to give someone feedback, and, sure enough, all the feedback that they give is what the person's not doing doing correct. And there are probably things that the person's not doing correct that need to be coached up, but the person did a lot of things that were correct. Also, in training ourselves to spot the good is something that we can do to personalize our approach, especially if we know what their natural strengths are, and now we can comment on hey, you did a great job motivating that person. They came in here feeling one way. They left here feeling another way. Awesome job motivating that person. I mean, if you know that that person has strength there, now you just complimented or told them specifically what they did or how they changed someone's behavior. They're going to love that and thrive because of it.
Emily Estey:Yeah, for sure. I was just going to say I always and I, I started this when my kids were teen, first teenagers, and it was the see something, say something. If you see it, say it. It's so easy for us to see something and be like that was great and then walk away Like no actually.
Emily Estey:I remember this so vividly. I remember my son taking the garbage out one day and I was like I really appreciate you, Thank you so much for doing that, and he looked at me like you're welcome, you know the garbage out right and he'd take it out. I'm like yep, See something, say something. I love that.
Jeff Clewett:I think there's so many parallels right with this job and being a parent. I laugh with Emily a lot. I'm like. I think I had the same conversation with my six-year-old son yesterday. It's not to say it's a matter of intelligence or anything. We're all human beings. We're all wired a certain way. We tend to lean into good feedback and try to stay away from bad feedback. Right People don't like being corrected you know Right and they feel micromanaged or they don't feel like you appreciate the strengths. So I think that's an amazing point.
Jeff Clewett:And I'm taking that one home with me too. So thank you, Evelyn, You're welcome.
Matt Sunshine:All right, so let's wrap this up. Final question If either of you had to provide one piece of advice or guidance for sales managers looking to better focus their teams on the right activities, what would you give? What would be your piece of advice, jeff?
Jeff Clewett:I'm going to channel Steve Jobs here and say focus means saying no to good ideas and or focus means saying no to things. I think oftentimes we have squirrel type behavior in this business. We have emergencies, we have distractions, but again, if you have a singular goal in mind and it's a good one and it's something you can measure against and keep yourself accountable to through either the data or the follow up, you know it's all about meaningful actions, so marrying those to the path you're taking, to your goals and making sure that you're consistent. You got to block out the distractions and I think leadership plays such a strong role in that. To your point earlier, matt is, we're beating the drum play such a strong role in that. To your point earlier, matt is we're we're beating the drum and if we're ringing too many bells, you're asking your people to do a lot of things at once, which is very difficult for anyone to do so yeah, absolutely, emily I was just.
Emily Estey:I would have said what we were just talking about talk about the things that matter and give positive feedback when you see execution.
Matt Sunshine:I mean pretty simple but that's what I would. I think, you know, I don I mean but that's what I would.
Emily Estey:I think you know, I don't know. I think that's. I think again, talking about what things that matter, talking about the, the things that are going to move the. You know to your point, jeff, faster and farther, you know, love, love that. I think that's a great. Faster and farther is a good, that's a good. Uh, you know what things are going to do that for us and use every, everything that comes up in your day Does that move me faster and farther, faster and farther, love that.
Matt Sunshine:Absolutely. This has been such a great conversation. Both of you just shared so many great nuggets of information, some great advice. Anybody watching or listening this is going to come away from this type of a podcast with actionable items, and for that I say thank you. But I also know that anyone listening and watching also says thank you, because a lot of times you listen to podcasts it's theoretical stuff, and I think today we were really able to get a little bit beyond theory and get into some practical reality. So thank you both for that. And I know if people want to get a hold of you. You guys are both very approachable.
Matt Sunshine:We'll put your LinkedIn contact information in the show notes so that anyone listening wants to get a hold of Jeff or with Emily. That's how. That's probably the very best way to do it and for everyone listening or watching, thank you so much for joining us and we look forward to seeing you on the next episode of the Improving Sales Performance Podcast. This has been Improving Sales Performance. Thanks for listening. If you like what you heard, join us every week by clicking the subscribe button For more on the topics covered in the show. Visit our website, thecenterforsalesstrategycom. There you can find helpful resources and content aimed at improving your sales performance. You.
