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Improving Sales Performance
Focused on Talent: Recruitment with Trey Morris and Mindy Murphy
In this episode, we’re kicking off our season-long exploration of The Center for Sales Strategy’s latest Talent Magazine. In other words, we’ll be diving into exactly how you should go about recruiting, selecting, developing and engaging your people.
Each week, Matt will be joined by experts from here at The Center for Sales Strategy to help break it all down.
In today’s episode, Trey Morris and Mindy Murphy are here to discuss the latest facts and trends relating to Recruitment, and they both share a ton of awesome insights, like:
- How the leaders who have the most success in recruiting almost always use multiple recruitment methods
- Why you won’t find as many Millennial and Gen Z job seekers on LinkedIn or Indeed anymore
- And how making recruitment part of your weekly routine is one of the best ways to avoid the dreaded “desperation hire.”
Links:
The 2023 Talent Magazine
Trey Morris
Mindy Murphy
Matt Sunshine
The Center for Sales Strategy
Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a podcast highlighting tips and insights aimed at helping sales organizations realize, and maybe even exceed, their goals. Here we chat with thought leaders, experts and gurus who have years of sales experience from a wide range of industries. I'm your host, matt Sunshine, ceo at the Center for Sales Strategy, a sales performance consulting company. In this episode, we're kicking off our season-long exploration of the Center for Sales Strategy's latest talent magazine. In other words, we'll be diving into exactly how you should go about recruiting, selecting, developing and engaging your people. Each week, I'll be joined by experts from the Center for Sales Strategy to help me break it all down.
Matt Sunshine:In today's episode, trey Morris and Mindy Murphy are here to discuss the latest facts and trends relating to recruitment, and they both share a ton of awesome insights, like how the leaders who have the most success in recruiting almost always use multiple recruitment methods, why you won't find as many millennial and Gen Z job seekers unlinked in or indeed as you used to, and how making recruitment part of your weekly routine is one of the best ways to avoid the dreaded desperation hire. With that, let's jump into the conversation, all right? So, Trey, I'm going to throw this one to you first, and Mindy, feel free to jump in as well. What are some of the big trends in the world of recruitment that hiring managers should be aware of these days? Are there any major focuses or any major things that you're seeing, maybe that you have a passion or we should have a passion about?
Trey Morris:Well, a couple of things that come to mind that people are using to try and break out of the rut of recruiting which everybody is struggling with right now is one, the use of AI in writing job descriptions and writing job ads, getting creative in how they write them, streamline them, make them able to really change them up on a more regular basis. And then the second thing is the use of social media, especially when targeting millennials and Gen Z that are not your traditional job seekers, that are not going to the job boards in LinkedIn, but are getting their news, information and updates from TikTok, Instagram, be Real, whatever. And so those are the two of the things that are really, I think, on the cutting edge for recruiters that are using it and getting better results.
Matt Sunshine:Mindy, anything specifically on trends, or would you rather me just kind of bundle that in with the work that you've done on the superstar study, because I have some thoughts on that that I'd like to get your input on.
Mindy Murphy:Yeah, I mean kind of related to that. I think what the last few years especially have taught us that finding top talent has just become increasingly more challenging. So the biggest trend I hear every day is it's really hard to find top talent, and I've noticed that companies are becoming more and more focused on building strong talent banks that they can tap into. So finding top talent is not going to get any easier. Managers need to focus even greater attention on building strong talent banks they can pull from in the future.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, well said. I don't think finding talented people has ever been easy. I do think that it is harder today than it's ever been. And it is interesting the concept of the talent bank. I'm so glad you brought that up. I mean, at CSS we've been teaching the concept of the talent bank for at least 26 years. I know that was the first time I went through TFM was about 26 years ago and that was one of the strongest concepts, so it's not new, but it is become in favor, right. It is become popular to do that, which is a good thing. So maybe let me come to you, because you are at least at the Center for Sales Strategy. You're the expert when it comes to our annual superstar study. You head that up. You look at the numbers, you look at the research. Could you first give us a brief breakdown of what the superstar study takes a look at and then follow that up with? Were there any findings this year in the study that are particularly noteworthy for you and that we would be interested in?
Mindy Murphy:Yeah, absolutely. The sales superstar study is one of my favorite research projects that we do and each year we ask clients. We ask our clients, you know, have they hired someone in the past year who they consider to be a sales superstar and then, if they did, how they found them. Our goal is really to identify recruitment trends and uncover the most common ways managers are finding superstars. And a couple of highlights from this year's study One for the past eight years that we've done this study the number one, most common way our clients have found sales superstars is through referrals, asking for referrals.
Mindy Murphy:More than 30% of superstars sellers were found through referrals. So it's a great idea to make a list of everyone you know who could be a good referral source and ask for referrals often. Another thing is trade mentioned social media. That's been a close second for the past few years and we break it out separately LinkedIn and then all other social media but it's very closely second to asking for referrals. And another thing we learn of just the clients who send in these examples is that the leaders who have the most success in hiring superstars use multiple recruitment methods. They don't just try one thing and keep doing that one thing. They ask for referrals and they post on LinkedIn and other social media and they advertise and use job boards, so they have multiple ways that they look for talent to put in their talent banks.
Matt Sunshine:I love the superstar study. I absolutely love the superstar study. I think it is one of the most important things that we do, where, when we get a chance to look at what's really working and everything, I just think that's so valuable. Thank you for leading that up so, trey. You kind of mentioned this something on this. Before this next question, you might want to chime in on this one. First, let's talk about the role that technology plays in the recruitment process today, and how are companies leveraging AI, leveraging automation, using data analytics to streamline their hiring efforts? Kind of give us what you're seeing out there.
Trey Morris:Yeah, and to go off on what Mindy is saying, it's, above all, it's everything that you can use to find people, because it is the biggest challenge that I see with sales managers, day in and day out. There is not a client that I haven't spoken to in the last six months that hasn't brought up finding good people, that they're always looking for people. They're always short, and so it's something that's incredibly important, and you've got to look at every possible opportunity to recruit, and so AI has some really amazing things that it can do. It can write your job descriptions. It can write your ads for you. It gives you multiple versions of ads and creative. Where it might have taken hours and days to create good, solid ads and job descriptions now takes literally seconds, and so that's one of the ways that helps you.
Trey Morris:You can begin to use it to schedule social media posts where you are promoting the jobs and the descriptions and creative ways of reaching out to potential prospects. And, like I said, linkedin is great, indeed is awesome. Using Monster is good, but if you're reaching people honestly under the age of like 35, which is kind of at the top end of the older millennials they're not going there on a regular basis. Right, where they are on a regular basis is on TikTok and on Instagram, and maybe Facebook for some of the older ones. Definitely Twitter, even Be Real is one of those things, and so looking for ways to integrate job recruiting content into your social media platform probably is one of the best ways. It's also an opportunity for people to share things it's easy to share on social media, which would then lead to the referral element of recruiting as being the top way to find superstars, and so you have to get creative. You have to look at that every different opportunity and use every technology available to you, mindy anything to add on that one?
Mindy Murphy:Just right in line with that, I think, as Trace said, writing those different postings for each social media platform. I think that's great to keep in mind and get help with doing that, because they all have distinct audiences and cultures. Linkedin is very different from TikTok Getting a feel for each social media platform and then using AI to help make sure your message is going to connect with that particular audience.
Matt Sunshine:I think it's worth stating here that what we're talking about is using AI for recruitment, not for selection, that this is for recruitment. I know there's been a lot of talk about this in the press. I think we want to come down really, really clear. Is that what we're talking about is using AI to help you in the recruitment process? We have other podcasts. We have lots of information on our websites. We have a lot of expertise in helping businesses with selection. We would not endorse using AI for selection, but certainly for the recruitment process. It makes all the sense in the world for the reasons that you guys are stating.
Matt Sunshine:Trey, let me come to you on this one. You wrote an article in this year's Talent Magazine which, by the way, the whole magazine is amazing. Anyone listening or watching this. If you haven't picked up a copy, a digital copy, of the magazine, we'll have a link in the show notes. You can go get it, it's free. We want you to enjoy it. Share it. Trey, you wrote an article. It's a very provocative, great title five crazy ways to recruit. I'm sure just hearing that people are like well, I want to know the crazy ways to recruit. Let me have them In there. You pointed out the shifting preferences of millennials and Gen Z when it comes to recruiting. Share a little bit of that.
Trey Morris:Yeah, a couple of things that have really shifted in the Gen Z and Millennial generations is one they don't look for ads in recruitment like Gen X did or even the Boomers did. Back in the day you went to the newspaper and you was all about talking to friends, and that Nowadays it is a lot of social media and a lot of recruitment. But the second thing, and honestly the bigger thing, is what they're looking for in a job and in a business and a culture is very different than what, say, I was looking for when I was looking for a new job when I was their age. Culture is huge. Work-life balance is huge. Consistency and security are way more valued for those generations than they were for my generation. They're willing to take less money for a more secure opportunity. To me that is crazy, because I want as much money as humanly possible. I'm willing to take a risk. They are risk averse and a lot of it is because of the time.
Trey Morris:The last 20 years have been a bit turbulent. They're looking for security. Because of that, the way that you are talking about your organization and the job and the role and the compensation need to be different than if you were trying to recruit someone in their 40s because it's a different mentality. What they're looking for is a great culture, a great lifestyle. They want to be connected to the people they work with. They want to share the vision and mission. They want to work remotely at least part of the time.
Trey Morris:If it's a full-time job in the office, you're not going to get applications. They're also looking to more security as far as compensation. If you're talking about a sales role, is there a base involved? Because they're more likely to want a position that has a base plus commission, plus bonuses, probably, but they're going to want something that is consistent. They're not looking for straight commission jobs, which is what I started with. I was thrilled for the opportunity because the potential for unlimited income was there. They're looking for things that are very different. Therefore, our messaging, our content, our argument of why you would want to work for X company needs to be adjusted as well.
Matt Sunshine:Mindy, anything to add to that?
Mindy Murphy:No, sure you covered it. I thought it was like a flat away.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, I'm just thinking about what you're saying. One of the things that I've observed is that GenXers, boomers, had a belief that you went to work somewhere and then you work there your entire life, yeah, right, that you were going to find the place to go. You're going to go there, you're going to work, you're going to work really hard. Maybe there's going to be opportunities for you to grow, but that's really on you to prove yourself and demonstrate or and share that you want to do that, and that the idea of going from place to place to place to place was not only not in your realm, but it was also something that you thought was bad. Yeah, it was frowned upon, it was right. I mean, yeah, you have too many things on your resume and no, you don't want that. You don't want to be a job hopper, yeah, and today, what I've noticed is that it's not a bad thing at all.
Trey Morris:People go to two years is a long time.
Matt Sunshine:Two years, that's right. Two years here, two years here, two years here, two years here and it is about culture. It is about, well, this is what was interesting to me. Or I wanted to try something different, or I wanted to do that and, by the way, that's a good thing. Yeah, right, I read somewhere we've written an article about it Beth has written some articles about this about this idea of people sign up for a tour of duty.
Matt Sunshine:Basically, Right, right, they come to you and they work for you for probably two to three years, and every two to three years, they make a conscious decision to either reenlist and stay there or to not reenlist and look and go somewhere else. So every two to three years, you have someone is deciding to stay, and so someone might be with you or be with your organization for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. That happens all the time Still, but probably along the way, every two to three years, they've decided. You know what? I really love this place, I love what I'm doing, so I think that mindset of thinking about it that way is super important. That also leads me to my next question, which I want to get both of you to react to.
Matt Sunshine:In this year's talent magazine, I wrote an article called Retention is the New Recruitment. Right, retention is the new recruitment Kind of talking about what we are just talking about. Right that you got to get those people to reenlist. If 50% of your workforce decides not to reenlist, you got to go get a lot of new people. If 100% of your workforce decides to reenlist, you're probably not looking to hire as many. So, with an increase focused on employee experience and retention, what are some of the innovative approaches that you're seeing organizations take to ensure a positive candidate and employee journey from the recruitment stage onward? What are you seeing? And, mindy, I'll come to you first on this one.
Mindy Murphy:Okay, yeah, I really like that. Your article started with building positive relationships, and that's what I see the very best leaders that we work with to retain their people is. I mean nothing else works or means much. You're coaching, feedback, goal setting, holding people accountable. None of that works well unless you first build trust and build a great relationship with your people. So I mean always doing what you say you're going to do, letting people know you care about them and their success, and creating open communication are all great ways to begin to do that, to start building solid relationships from the very first interaction with people. And one other thing I would say organizations that focus on employee engagement and retaining employees really invest in their people. They invest in their growth and development. So, from the very start, creating a great onboarding plan that covers the first few months someone starts in a job, all the way to building a development plan that helps them really lean on their strengths and grow for years.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, onboarding is so important and so overlooked in many organizations. Trey, what do you want to add to that?
Trey Morris:So one of the things that I see with the generations Gen Z, millennials is they're very much a generation of we, not me, right? I think that, as a gen X or myself, we are very me focused. Right, it's all about me and what I want and what I'm gonna do the with jenzi and mill the millenials. It's very much a we. It's a shared vision, and so organizations that are able to have a vision and a mission that is shared equally amongst the team and the employees that they get, they have a passion for and they want to achieve those organizations that are people are drawn to right. And so if you're trying to recruit and grow and have a great culture, being open about what your mission is, having a greater good mentality, having the mentality of what we are gonna do to help the world, our community, our customers, whatever that be, is very inviting to people, and they want to be part of something that is bigger than themselves, right? I mean, loneliness is rampant in our country because of remote working in social media, and so people are craving experiences that are bigger than themselves. Businesses can be a very big part of that, and having a culture around that Is a draw for recruitment.
Trey Morris:The other thing that I see is they are looking for ways To make sure that people are not so on singularly focused on work, that it becomes a burden right. Their organizations that care about the mental health of their employees, they care about what's going on in their lives, they're supportive of those people. They give Opportunities to work from home and either additional or even unlimited paid time off, because that's what people are looking for. And so if you want to keep good people, you have to do some of this and you gotta pay him right. I mean, we talk about how they'll take less money for security, but the reality is they still need Ex amount of money to live these lives, and so if you are looking at those kind of three things, I think those are ways that you're gonna not only retain your staff, but it also can be a draw for recruiting new people.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, one of the things that, the thing that called me to write the article, the experiences that I'm seeing is this it's a lot about. It's about getting. It's about bringing amazing, talented, experienced people in your organization to help you grow the organization. That's the goal of business. I'm so lot easier to bring in one of those people than it is to bring in 10 of those people. Right, we just said how difficult it is to find and recruit, so hiring looking for one is easier than looking for 100. The way to do that is making sure that the people that you have are staying. It's just kind of like in sales when we say it's a lot easier to fill the bucket when it's not leaking. Well, it's a lot easier to recruit when you don't have a retention problem.
Matt Sunshine:By the way, when you're constantly adding people, don't you think that people that work there kind of start saying what's going on? Why is everyone leaving? Why is nobody? Why do I? Why do you have so many open positions? One thing feeds the other, so that for me, writing the article was much more about hey, I love recruitment, but you hired these people. It's your responsibility to make sure you grow and develop them so that they do stay and grow in your company, or if they do leave, it's because they take some amazing job somewhere else and you love that. You hate to see them leave, but you love it for them because they're going off to something else. I think that's really something that needs to be, that needs to be focused on, because otherwise you're just going to be constantly looking to replace people, and that's that's no fun.
Matt Sunshine:All right, last question, and, mindy, I'll come to you first and then, trey, I'll give you the final word if there's one piece of advice that you could give to those who are finding Recruitment difficult at this moment. So I'm looking for one piece of advice. What would that be? What's an actionable takeaway? That someone listening or watching this investing 25 minutes of their time? What's something that they can go? That's a good idea. I'm gonna do that, mindy, go.
Mindy Murphy:Mine's really simple. It's make time for recruitment. Try to block off time for one recruitment related activity a week. I mean you might conduct an interview, ask for a referral post on social media. If you use a talent assessment, do something creative to get it in the hands of more candidates, but schedule time for recruitment each week. We always say at CSS recruitment should happen 52 weeks a year. So if it's on your calendar you'll make it a priority.
Trey Morris:Well said Trey, so mine is very similar. Mine is always be recruiting. So in everything that you're doing, you should always have an eye toward potential candidates, and so that means when you are at dinner at a restaurant tonight and you have a really outgoing waitress, you go to a bar and you have a great bartender these are potential candidates have Conversations about. Have you ever thought about Whatever role you're looking for right? And then? Because if you're, if you're a CSS client, you've got a great assessment that you can, you can share with them, you can find out if they're talented and Then you can get them into your talent bank as a potential recruitment. But you should always be recruiting. Whether you're shopping, if you're going to get a new suit, a new dress, if you're looking at cars, if you're going anywhere, always be looking for potential candidates. That's the key to having a strong talent bank perfect guys.
Matt Sunshine:I can't thank you enough for Having this conversation today. You you're both such wealths of information on this extremely important topic, and thank you for everyone who is listening or watching For joining in our conversation or a P a listening in our conversation. We love that. If you want to Continue the conversation, you want to follow up with either Trey or Mindy, we will put links to their LinkedIn profile in the show notes and with that we'll say goodbye and Be listening or be watching for future episodes of the improving sales performance podcast. Have a great day. This has been improving sales performance. Thanks for listening. If you like what you heard, join us every week by clicking the subscribe button. For more on the topics covered in the show, visit our website, the center for sales strategycom. There you can find helpful resources and content aimed at improving your sales performance.
