In this episode, we’re continuing our season-long deep dive into the latest Media Sales Report from The Center for Sales Strategy.
And today, Trey Morris, VP/ Senior Consultant here at CSS, is joining Matt to help answer the question, “Why is it getting harder to convert prospects and renew clients?”
Trey brings so many great points to the table, such as:
Links:
The 5th Annual Media Sales Report
Trey Morris
Matt Sunshine
The Center for Sales Strategy
In this episode, we’re continuing our season-long deep dive into the latest Media Sales Report from The Center for Sales Strategy.
And today, Trey Morris, VP/ Senior Consultant here at CSS, is joining Matt to help answer the question, “Why is it getting harder to convert prospects and renew clients?”
Trey brings so many great points to the table, such as:
Links:
The 5th Annual Media Sales Report
Trey Morris
Matt Sunshine
The Center for Sales Strategy
Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a podcast highlighting tips and insights aimed at helping sales organizations realize, and maybe even exceed, their goals. Here we chat with thought leaders, experts and gurus who have years of sales experience from a wide range of industries. I'm your host, matt Sunshine, ceo at the Center for Sales Strategy, a sales performance consulting company. In this episode we're continuing our season-long deep dive into the latest media sales report from the Center for Sales Strategy, and today Trey Morris, vp Senior Consultant here at CSS, is joining me to help answer the question why is it getting harder to convert prospects and renew clients? Trey brings so many great points to the table, such as how too many salespeople are pitching products instead of solutions, why sellers need to do a better job of helping existing clients figure out what's working and what's not working early on in their business relationship and, finally, why is it so important for every seller to give the best reason possible for prospects to want to meet with them. With that, let's get the conversation going.
Matt Sunshine:So, trey, in the just recently published fifth annual, can you believe it's already been the fifth annual? It's hard to believe. That's very cool the fifth annual media sales report. I found this interesting. I thought we'd kick it off with this 57% of salespeople tell us that converting prospects is becoming more difficult. Not that we're shocked by that, but that is what the data shows 57% of salespeople tell us converting prospects has become more difficult. So here are my questions. It's kind of a two-part question what are you hearing firsthand? What are you hearing and why do you think this is the case? And then the second one is what advice do you have for salespeople that are frustrated by this? What advice do you?
Trey Morris:have. So what I'm hearing and I'm surprised that it's only 57% Based on anecdotal data of just people I talked to, it would be 108% of people think it's harder today. That's all I hear In every client that we work with. It's how do we get more meetings? How do we get more meetings? How do we convert a prospect into a client? And the reality is it is harder.
Trey Morris:All of this really cool technology has made it super easy for us to ignore people, and so that's what's happened. I mean especially with working remote. So many of the people that we're trying to get in front of, they're not in the office, they're not in the store, they're somewhere else, and so getting a hold of them is tough. Also, you're seeing a lot of problems with people that are kind of putting their toes in the water. If they do get a meeting and there is a presentation, they're not really that serious about it because they just don't know about visibility.
Trey Morris:No one knows what the economy is going to be like in two months, six months, a year, tomorrow in a lot of cases. So people are nervous. Cash flow is an issue. We get mixed signals on the economy, so there's a lot of reasons that people aren't moving forward, but I think the biggest reason is that so many salespeople are still relying on pitching product and they're not providing solutions, they're not demonstrating how they are going to add value and they're going to be able to solve that prospect's problems or help them achieve a goal. And so the reality is is that if you're just pitching product and they're already nervous about the economy and they don't really want to spend the money and they don't necessarily believe what you're talking about is going to help them, they're not going to make a decision, they're not going to say yes, they're not going to convert and become a customer, and that's just the reality of Sales, no matter what you're selling. Yeah, folks, on what?
Matt Sunshine:you saw not what you sell? Yeah, all right. So sales people are also Reporting, based on our survey, that it's more difficult when it comes to renewing clients. It's hard enough to get to get a client. It's becoming more challenging now to renew. Actually, 42% Say that renewals are getting tougher than before. So why, what contributing factors are making are causing this and what advice do you have? What can sellers do to set themselves up for success To renew their clients?
Trey Morris:Yeah, this is something that I am seeing more of today than, honestly, I think I've ever seen before, and so I think that a lot of it is that Part of it is on the sales person's Issue not doing what they should be doing. Part of it is not Helping clients do a better job of understanding, tracking and seeing what's working and what's not working. Clients are so busy today that they are not focused on Tracking what works and what doesn't work right, and if you're not working with them and Helping them do that giving them a system, providing information, providing data, being part of their team to educate Everyone within the organization of what they're doing, what adds they're running, what specials they're offering there's just not a lot of information and people are too busy to necessarily ask everyone. They're too busy to check to see what they came in on an ad or if they mentioned something specific, and so there's probably a lot of People that are coming in buying products and services because of an advertisement they saw or they heard, or an email that they got, or a display ad that triggered them, and so, but they're not getting credit for it, and so part of that is our fault for not helping the client and Getting better at making sure they understand what's working and what's not working, and making sure we're educating everyone and being Involved with them, being a partner with them. I think the other part of it is that they're so busy that they don't even know how to do it, and they're so busy they're not even noticing it.
Trey Morris:And also, let's be honest, there are so many more ads that we come into on a regular basis than ever before. I mean, I know that when I started Back in, you know, 1872, they said that there were 3000 ads a day. Remember as well as you saw 3000 ads a day. What is it today? 30,000 is it? I mean, it could be 30,000. It literally could be 30,000 ads. Which one am I gonna notice? Which one am I gonna respond to? Right, and so I think you're seeing that that deluded Number of ads results are coming are harder than they've ever been before.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, and and getting renewals is is oh so important, right? I mean that's name the game. You know it's a lot easier to fill the bucket when it's not, when it's not leaking from the bottom.
Trey Morris:Yeah so. So if you're not, if they're not getting good results, you're not gonna get renewals, right, is you come back in there and go, hey, you ready to renew? And they're like I didn't work.
Trey Morris:Right well, if this is the first time that you're finding out that something's not working and it's time for a renewal, you're dead. You're dead, there's. There's no way you are gonna save that. So Part of that problem of us not communicating is also not staying in touch with knowing what's working and what's not working. And so if things aren't going like you want them to go, I wanna know in week one, not week 12 or 26 or 52.
Trey Morris:Because in week one or two, I can help them fix that. Maybe it's a copy issue. Maybe it's a creative issue. Maybe it's what we're running the campaign that we're doing. Maybe it's that we're just not tracking it right and so nobody's gonna renew if you're not getting results. It's all about ROI.
Matt Sunshine:And if dollars are less.
Trey Morris:I'm not gonna renew the things that aren't working.
Matt Sunshine:It's interesting. Just going back to what you said before, it kind of ties together If, whether you claim to be a product salesperson or not because nobody claims to be a product salesperson nobody. Everyone says they're customer focused. But you show what you are by your actions, right by behavior. So if you claim to be a solutions focused seller, then what you care about is making sure that your customer gets results. It gets the solution. So if to you, the service stops with the sale because you need to move on to get the next one, you're truly you're focused on selling the product and then selling the product again and selling the product again. You're focused on the solution. Well, the selling, the sale is you're at the 10 yard line. You've still got 90 yards to go right, you're just getting started. So they really do tie together nicely. From what you said in your response to getting pro, it's all about being solving the problem, not just selling. Yeah, 100%, all right. So first question teach you up on salespeople getting new business. Second question was really about salespeople getting renewal business.
Matt Sunshine:This next question has to do with something that I know is near and dear to our hearts getting appointments and let's just throw it. It's never been easy. It's not like it used to be so easy, but maybe it used to be easy, or but it was never easy. So here's what the data says and I'll ask you a question. Over half of the salespeople survey 57% say it takes five or more attempts to secure a sales appointment. Five or more, I think we agree with that. 87% of salespeople say that securing appointments is harder today than it was five years ago. So again, it takes it. 57% say it takes five or more attempts. Almost 90% 87% to be exact say it's harder than it was five years ago. Here are my questions for you why are sales appointments becoming harder? And you got any tips? What do salespeople do?
Trey Morris:Yeah, I kind of answered that in your first question, because getting appointments leads to conversions, right, they're tied together. Part of it is we just have a lot of technology that it's easy to ignore people. They're not in the office and there are so many salespeople that are reaching out to decision makers on a regular basis, and not just media and advertising sales. I mean every vendor is gonna have what 10, 20 different companies that are all pitching for that same business. I mean a business owner could have a hundred different people reach out to him on any given day. One you get a meeting with them. You can't meet with a hundred people. You don't meet. You're not gonna meet with two people, right. So that's what makes it so much harder today than ever before. And it's good that 57% of people know.
Trey Morris:Hey, I've gotta be persistent, I've gotta keep reaching out, because that is part of the solution of getting more meetings is having more outreaches. So they need to reach out to a prospect. We say seven to nine times I've just simplified it and said nine times. Now it's nine times You've got a plan In two weeks?
Trey Morris:Yeah, in two weeks, exactly. It's not over a year, it's two weeks. Reach out nine times in two weeks that's a lot. That's almost every single day. Right, but you have to have a really good reason for them to meet with you, right, and we call it the valid business reason. It's why would they want to meet with me? What do I have to offer that has value? That's gonna help them. Whether it's gonna be solve a problem, achieve a goal, meet a need, whatever that is, you have to have a really good hook as to why they would want to meet with you. And then you've gotta hammer it nine times in two weeks to get their attention before they respond. So that's the foundational element of getting more meetings. What are the tips to make it more successful, for you to be better at it?
Trey Morris:My thing is you've got to be different. You have got to stand out from the crowd. You've got to break through the clutter. I know you get tons of people trying to sell you stuff, because I get tons of people that are trying to sell me stuff because my title makes it seem like I might buy something. I don't buy anything at CSS. I have no authority whatsoever.
Trey Morris:It's the biggest waste of time in the world to email me. If you're thinking about email me, don't If you're trying to sell me something. So I know I get tons of them and they're all the same. They're so boring, they're so simple. All I see is emails. Nobody is sending videos, no one is calling me. Obviously you can't knock on my door, but if I was a business owner and I had a storefront boy, I would, old school, go door to door and try and meet with people face to face. I would use the phone more than I would use email. I would send letters. I would send something unique. I would. You just have to be creative to break through the clutter, because there are literally thousands of salespeople doing the exact same thing. They're super boring and it's so easy to delete email after email after email and never respond.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, so I'm gonna circle back to this whole conversation on different ways of communicating in one second, but I wanna go back to something that you were talking about, the don't give up strategy, and there's that old quote in like when luck is when preparation meets opportunity right, luck is when preparation meets opportunity. So appointments are when persistence meets professionalism right. When it's not enough just to be really professional and have a VBR. It's not. I mean, you could have the best, most well-written, most researched email, talk track, whatever, but if you reach out to someone and your email gets put in the junk folder for some reason, or bounces, or the person is off that day and comes back to 350 emails and deletes all of them, you're well-written, well-researched email never got seen.
Matt Sunshine:On the flip side, though, if all you are is persistent and you're not professional, you're gonna look foolish and you're gonna get a please do not. You're gonna get an unsubscribe back and say leave me alone, I don't want your spam. So I like what you're saying and I agree, and I think the biggest thing that I've heard you say not here today, but just again and again and again what I've been with you over the years is the biggest thing you can do is commit to doing it right Knowing what to do and doing what you need to do sometimes is where the chasm is. If you know you need to have really good VBRs and you know you need to reach out nine times in two weeks, then do that.
Trey Morris:And yeah, I hear that all the time when I'm in markets with clients and I'll go through the don't give up plan and we'll talk about VBRs and the sales people that are honest, come up and go. I don't do this all the time. I need to do this all the time. If I did this all the time, I would have as many meetings as I wanted.
Matt Sunshine:Right. I mean, the challenge is this we all have our stories of well, I only called this guy one time and I got the greatest appointment in the world. I didn't have to call nine. But, by the way, great High five congrats. That's awesome. You don't have to. By the way, if you get an appointment on the first call, you do not have to keep doing the other one. You do not. No, you can stop that, all right. Last question for you.
Matt Sunshine:So a big part of all of this is communicating with prospects. You touched on it in your answer to your last question. How we choose to communicate with them is kind of what differentiates us. Most salespeople 72% rely on email and 55% rely on phone. In your opinion, do the legacy channels like email and phone calls, do they still prevail? In other words, are they still the best to use, or are there newer channels and kind of hit on them? So maybe touch on those again. And are there any communication tactics that you would recommend and maybe you can talk about when you run your don't give ups strategies? Maybe you can talk about what your last outreach is sometimes like.
Trey Morris:Yeah, so I did talk about it. I think that email is less effective today than it's ever been. I still see salespeople using it more than anything else. I think that's a mistake. Phone, for the longest time, wasn't effective at all. I think since 2020, phone calls have become way more successful. I think people are more willing to talk to someone on the phone today because they may not be in the office and maybe they aren't talking to people, so I think phone has probably exceeded email. I'm hearing a lot of success from salespeople who will go in canvas, a neighborhood, like they find a group of three, four, five businesses all relatively close to each other and they literally and this is crazy some of these people are not gonna believe this it's true they walk into a business and they speak to a human being in person. I know crazy, right, but it works. Like people are excited you walked in and they're more willing to help you and oh, I'm not the person, but this is the person to call and this is his card, and that seems to work really well.
Trey Morris:I think video is another really good way of using ways to communicate, especially if you're more outgoing, and all of video is a video of a voicemail. That's it. That's all it is. I mean, I don't understand why people get nervous, but they get nervous. But we are on video calls every single day of the week. What's it matter? If it's being recorded, it's the same thing, right? Just do that. I think leaving things behind, mailing things are different. I mean mailing someone a card. Nobody mails anything. So if I got something in the mail that would stand out right, I'd be interested to read that, especially if it's handwritten. I'm gonna open that. I wanna see who wrote me a letter or wrote me a note. I think that's really important and I think those are the things that I would do.
Matt Sunshine:Tell everyone about your outreach. When you run a, don't give up plan for yourself, for when you're in sales mode, I'm giving up.
Trey Morris:Yeah, it's the one, two, three email and I think I stole it from you but I take full ownership of it.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, you say it's yours now.
Trey Morris:Yeah, so it's. The title of the email is please respond with a one, two or three. Dot dot dot. By the way, I tested that on subjectlinecom and it scored 100, so yay me and it's dear Matt, I've been trying to get in touch with you for the last couple of weeks. We haven't been able to connect.
Trey Morris:Before I give up, I wanted to give you one last chance to make sure that we didn't miss an opportunity. So do me a favor and reply with a one, a two or a three to this email. Number one yes, I'm interested, I've just been really busy. Send me some times you're available and we'll schedule something. Number two no, I'm sure you're a great guy, but I'm not interested. Please leave me alone. Or number three I've fallen and I can't get up. Please call for help. And then I say let me know which one it is, because I'm starting to worry. Thanks, trey.
Trey Morris:And I would say that I probably get 70 or 80% of the time will get a response, and half the time I get yeses and half the time I get no's, or ones and twos, and then occasionally people will be funny and they'll put down a number three, and then one time someone put down number four. And then they said for me to do something to myself, which is not appropriate for this kind of content. And if I get a two, a three or a four, I reply thanks for letting me know. You'll never hear from me again. And what's funny is if the three and the fours every time they've replied. Oh, I was just kidding, I thought you would think this was funny. I actually am interested and I'll end up getting meetings.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, and then for anyone listening or watching this podcast, if you don't know what I fall in and can't get up, is you just should Google I fall in, get it up and you'll see that that was a very clever advertising campaign Way back when you.
Trey Morris:You're making me feel really old. May you go really old. There are people watching this all right.
Matt Sunshine:So, trey, thank you so much. Your, your insight and your expertise on these Specific topics is is incredibly valuable. There is there's so much. You've unpacked and shared so much wisdom Today that if someone just would, would simply do what you tell them to do, if they would just simply take the advice and give it a try, I absolutely know that they would get results. So, thank you, thank you, thank you for joining us, sharing your wisdom with everyone that is watching or listening.
Matt Sunshine:If you want to get ahold of Trey, his information will be in the show notes or you can go to LinkedIn and look up Trey Morris at the Center for Sales Strategy. It'll come up first and because he's very active on social media and we look forward to seeing all of you on the next episode of the improving sales performance. This has been improving sales performance. Thanks for listening. If you like what you heard, join us every week by clicking the subscribe button For more on the topics covered in the show. Visit our website, the Center for Sales Strategycom. There you can find helpful resources and content aimed at improving your sales performance.