At Improving Sales Performance, we are proud to be celebrating Women in Sales Month once again.
For all of October, we have an amazing slate of women sales leaders who will be sharing their unique insights.
From offering advice for sales managers new and old to surveying the anticipated landscape of sales in the years ahead, when it comes to Improving Sales Performance, these ladies know how it's done.
Joining Matt for the entire month is Stephanie Downs, SVP & Senior Consultant at The Center for Sales Strategy.
Today, our guest is Stacey Kauffman, Regional Vice President for San Francisco and Sacramento at Audacy.
Stacy has so many amazing observations. Such as:
ABOUT IMPROVING SALES PERFORMANCE:
Improving Sales Performance is hosted by Matt Sunshine who speaks with guests that are thought leaders, experts, and industry gurus, to share their insight, tips, and knowledge on various topics that help companies improve sales performance.
3:37 What are the least amount of things that we can focus on that have the biggest amount of impact?
5:39 The biggest thing is recruiting, retaining, growing talent.
7:18 Data insights
8:07 Five years ago, the, the ideal Account Executive could wear all the hats
10:14 There's jobs that don't even exist yet.
12:40 We need leaders who can get the buy-in and and get the team motivated
16:25 Strong culture and engagement has been a running theme this season
17:46 You can't build a team of unicorns
19:09 Averaging two to three points per game can make all of the difference
23:30 The benefits of having an employee engagement team
26:30 There's that greater sense of desire for purpose and belonging
Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a podcast highlighting tips and insights aimed at helping sales organizations realize and maybe even exceed their goals. Here we chat with thought leaders, experts in gurus who have years of sales experience from a wide range of industries. This season, we are celebrating women in Sales month by talking to some amazing women sales pros. Joining me for the entire month of October is Stephanie Downs, SVP and senior consultant at the Center for Sales Strategy. She'll be sharing her insights along with our fabulous guests. I'm your host Matt Sunshine, managing partner at the Center for Sales Strategy, Sales Performance Consulting company.Stephanie Downs:
We're so proud to be celebrating Women in Sales Month for all of October. We have an amazing slate of women's sales leaders who will be sharing their unique insights from offering advice for sales managers, new or more experienced, to discussing the anticipated landscape of sales in years ahead when it comes to improving sales performance. These ladies know how it's done. I'm Stephanie down, Senior Vice President at the Center for Sales Strategy, and I'll be joining Matt Sunshine on the show for the entire month of October. Today our guest is Stacy Kaufman, Regional Vice President from San Francisco and Sacramento at Audacy. Stacy has many observations such as prioritizing your focus, amidst, the flurry of data that is constantly at our fingertips. Hint, hint, don't beat chain to your desk. How account executives can no longer wear all the hats like they used to, and why you can't build a team of unicorns.Matt Sunshine:
All right, let's jump in. Um, I'm super excited, uh, about this conversation. There's been a a lot of pre-discussion going on, which, which always means that the conversation's gonna be even better. So let's just jump right in, Steph, I'll let you take it away.Stephanie Downs:
Yeah, sounds great. So, Stacy, when you look at the overall sales organization, um, and maybe down to an individual station or between the two markets, what, um, what are the three or four or five things that you look at to know that you're on track for success?Stacey Kauffman:
For first, I would say is the culture and the vibe and the energy that we're seeing. And of course, in this new normal of this hybrid environment and you know, what people wanna be in the office for. So just seeing the collaboration that's happening, I think, you know, I like to be someone that walks the halls a bit. Yeah. And again, it's totally different because you have to be able to virtually walk the halls as well. So we are in the Google suite, so we, you know, use things like chat for that or have spaces, right. Just find different ways to engage and make everyone feel included. So that's piece of it is just to see how engaged are people and how are they responding. Yeah. And then, you know, the KPIs, I like to focus on leading indicators because that's an opportunity for us to still do something about it versus the lagging indicators, which are of course, how are we performing to our budget and our expectations. Yes. So, um, I really encourage our team and our leaders to narrow, like what are the least amount of things that we can focus on to have the biggest amount of impact. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, when I'm looking at a macro level for the region, you know, I'm, I'm looking at the roll up of how many new business calls, you know, we call client needs analysis mm-hmm.<affirmative> analysis, how many of those new business calls are we doing? What's the trend line of that? Are we adding sales velocity there? And then the dollars and the volume of ask on a weekly basis. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So I just really like to try to narrow it down. Of course, I can get in the weeds and, and go down all kinds of rabbit holes, but the least amount of things that I'm looking at on that leading side are the volume of new business calls, the volume of asks, and what's the total dollars of asks and what is that trend line. Yeah. And then of course I'm looking at how much are we closing a week and, and the pacing to see how that's all adding up.Stephanie Downs:
Yeah. I um, I love the fact that you defaulted, deleting indicators cuz so often in these conversations there's a lot of emphasis put on the end result. Right. Those, the performance metrics, they're important. We all know that they're important, We can't ignore those. But I love the, the thinking of if we put more emphasis on the front end are really paying attention to your point of deal size and call volume and all of those pieces, the end result's gonna happen. We know that's gonna follow if we're tracking and you're right, we don't need to track everything. We just need to track the ones that are gonna have the biggest impact. We could track everything. That does not mean we should<laugh>.Stacey Kauffman:
Exactly. Yeah. And that's, it's really easy, especially with all the tools and data that we have now, it's really easy to get stuck behind your desk and look at 74 reports. Right, Right. But that's really not what's gonna happen. YouStephanie Downs:
Get buried in that. Yeah, for sure. So thinking about, um, sales managers, I mean, we were just already touching on some of this, but what should sales managers be, you know, really focused on today? Highest priorities, biggest rocks, engagement, culture, what else?Stacey Kauffman:
Absolutely. Well, I think the biggest thing is recruiting, retaining, growing talent. Yeah. And I think that's not unique to our organization. I see it across our industry. Right. The ideal account executive today Yeah. Is different. And it's a real unique opportunity because we can look at enterprise sellers as an opportunity versus historically you needed experience to get the experience right. And just with the way that we're evolving our sales structure and having more, you know, client success managers and more of those account manager support types, it gives us an opportunity to really expand what the ideal sales executive could look like mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And so having that constant recruitment funnel is really important. Right. Like we have to put a championship team on the floor, we have high expectations, we all wanna win. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, the greatness is there is a ton of opportunity for all of us to be successful. Yeah. And so, but if we don't have a pipeline or a bench, it's the same thing that we're asking our sales people to do. Right?Stephanie Downs:
That's right. Yeah.Stacey Kauffman:
And so I would say that's number one is we have to retain the best talent. We have to, you know, recruit them and then we have to continue to grow and develop. Because one of the things that is so great about our business is that it is always evolving and changing. So what made us successful a year ago is not gonna probably be wholly the winning recipe today. So I would say that then also I would look at this just managing the sales velocity. So how are you a catalyst for business for your team? How are you guiding them on where and how to focus their time as a coach. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And the third thing is, is, and we kind of talked about this earlier, it's, it's data insights. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> not being changed to your desk, but how do you identify what are the two or three quick reports or numbers that you can look at that help you prioritize where you can have the biggest impact of where, how, and with whom you spend your time.Stephanie Downs:
Those three things, if you nail that, I think that's a recipe for success.Stephanie Downs:
Okay. There's so many things I wanna follow up in that. There was a lot of good stuff there. I don't even know where to start. So I'm gonna go to the beginning and then I'm gonna, I'm gonna pick up on multiples of those. You said, um, the, the AE is different today than it was before. Tell me a little bit more about that. What do you mean by that?Stacey Kauffman:
So I think even five years ago, the, the ideal AE could wear all the hats, Right? We wanted them to be business development hunters and account managers and do admin and of course use their CRM. Like all of these different things they, they really needed to, to know a little bit about a lot of things. Yeah. And I think as we continue to evolve and certainly in a company like ours at Audacy, where we have this massive scale for us to maximize and leverage that we really want them to be excellent at a couple things and then build a support team around them to do the rest. Yeah. So it is someone who, you know, the part that hasn't changed is, is still ideally a consultative seller, which has been since longer than I've been in the business. Right? Yeah. Um, and so that part hasn't changed. You know, we are looking for clients and businesses who have a problem that they're willing to pay to solve mm-hmm.<affirmative>, that's the simplest role of the account executive. Right? Right. And being able to qualify what that ultimately looks like. So someone who really excels in, in the prospecting mm-hmm.<affirmative> and hunting and enjoys the hunt. Yeah. That person is, we find most of the time there's unicorns most of the time they might not be great at details, they might not be great at follow up. Right. They may not be great at digging deep enough into account account, which is where partnering them with a client success specialist or an account manager type of role who can really help them get the account depth while they go. And they're kind of that first line of outreach. Um, and success I think is really important.Stephanie Downs:
Yeah. And based off all of that and understanding the, the need for the new AE is what has led to some of the conversation around the structure that you were just mentioning. Right. And evolving the sales structure. So do you envision that continuing to evolve? And if so, what do you think the structure's going to look like in the next few years? How do you anticipate or see that changing again? Because I think it probably will<laugh>,Stacey Kauffman:
I think that's the same then in this business is there's jobs that don't even exist yet. They're even gonna exist in three years. Right. That's part of what's so fun about it, is it's constantly evolving. Like, you know, even we used to have station specific sellers, Right. And then most of us have enterprise sellers. So those things are constantly evolving, just like, you know, the client model mm-hmm.<affirmative>, there's always, there's the ebb and flow of they're going to in-house agencies, then they're going out of house agencies. Right. So it's kind of always back and forth. What's the trend? And I, I'm not really sure what it's gonna be in three years. Yeah. I can guarantee it'll be different.Stephanie Downs:
We can say that it will change. We know,Stacey Kauffman:
You know, and we might find more vertical specialists. You know, we've seen some, some other industries somewhat related to ours. Um, and there are, I know there's other, um, organizations in our industry that, you know, have auto specialists for example. Right? Yeah. Or various health verticals and things like that. And we might, we might see more of that as, so the ideal account executive is that business hunter who we wanna be more specialized mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Conversely it could be that the support around them gets more specialized. Right. And, and I thinkStephanie Downs:
Still figuring that out.Stephanie Downs:
Yeah. Yeah. So thinking, I mean, we know that the, the role of the AE is evolving, it's changing, it's going to continue. What about from a sales leader? You know, what was the sales leader of yesterday meaning three or, you know, to five years ago versus a sales leader today?Stacey Kauffman:
Well, I think the most challenging part if, if we're being totally transparent is there were more of them<laugh>, right? Ah, so you had local sales managers, general sales manager. Right. You had an NPR director, you, there was just a bigger layer of local sales management that doesn't exist. So it is, it is really challenging. You know, the, the general sales manager role today, I continue to say I think the director of sales or VP of sales role is probably the hardest in the building. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Um, because we, it's the opposite of the account executive. We do need them to be the utility players because there's less of them. And so what mm-hmm.<affirmative> has not changed though is we need them to be inspiring and motivating. We need them to be great coaches. Right. Those fundamentals don't change. We need them to, I think, you know, my biggest advice is always leveraging that push and pull leadership, right? We need leaders who can get the buy in and, and get the team motivated and get them caring about the greater vision and mission and purpose of why we're all here. Because there's things that we could all do to earn a living, but we choose to come here every day. Yeah. So we need to be really clear on that why and feel connected to it. So they need to be able to use that so that they can pull their team in. But then they also need to be able to push and you need to build trust by, you know, you have to have trust so that when you tell them it's time to go or you're holding vulnerable, They're receiving it. Cuz you can hold people accountable without trust. It's just not very effective, right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative> mm-hmm.<affirmative>. But to where you're holding them accountable and they actually care because they understand it's more than just them. Yeah. That's I think the ultimate, and again, I don't think that part changes. I think the part that changes is what do they need to be good at? And ideally they're probably both left and right brained. Right. Because they need to be able to use data insights quickly to identify where and how they're gonna spend their time. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, but they still need to be of the people. Right. We don't want them trapped behind a desk. Yeah. And I think historically you could build your sales leadership team around having someone that was really good in the field and having someone that was a really good trainer and having someone Right. That was really good at maybe a vertical or ntr these things. And now we really have to do more with lessStephanie Downs:
Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Yeah. So thinking about, um, just staying on that topic for a minute, you gave a lot of different, um, things there that what a sales leader needs today. So you're hiring a brand new sales leader in the organization or assume that you're hiring. What are the three or four things that you are intentionally looking at from a talent skills experience in order to make that higher, that that fits a lot of what you were describing? Anything you would add to that list?Stacey Kauffman:
I do think there is a fit component and there's a need component, right? So I'm looking at the management team that I have mm-hmm.<affirmative> and saying, what do I have a lot of, what do I have a little of? Yeah. And so it's not necessarily the best general sales manager, it's the best person for this specific need, role and job in this market or this location mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And so, you know, and we use various talent resources to, to help identify that. Sure. I'm a big fan of strength finders. We use that as well. Looking at the leadership talent themes. You know, are we a little light on the relationship theme or are we a little light on the executing? Everyone can't be strategic. Someone has to actually get stuff on. Right. So like, there's all, So I look at all of those pieces to say mm-hmm.<affirmative>, who's the right person for this role. Mm-hmm.Stephanie Downs:
<affirmative>. Yeah. Matt, you wanna add anything? I see you taking notes,<laugh>Matt Sunshine:
Pages of notes. Um, the, uh, it is, yeah. Rounding is important when, when you're looking to build a team, Right. And making sure that you have someone who can do a little bit. I want to go back to some of the things that you said earlier. Um, because Stephanie and I have had the opportunity over the past week or so to, to do these podcasts with lots of very successful leaders like yourself. And I just think it's important for me to, to highlight some of the consistencies, some of the things that we're hearing again and again and again. Things like culture and engagement. I don't know if we would've heard that five years ago, like I don't know if,Stephanie Downs:
Or even three years ago.Matt Sunshine:
Yeah. What a change that is. That everyone has keyed in on the fact that we need to be very intentional on making sure that we have a place that has a strong culture with mission, vision values. Right. The why is in place. Um, the other thing is, again, hearing this again and again, and you articulated it perfectly, is really studying the pipeline, not just the pending. Yeah. Right. Understanding the CNAs that are being done, understand, understanding, how many asks are we making? What is that total ask amount and the trend line that goes with it. And the closing and the closing ratio that, that we're achieving. Um, could not have said it better, but it is interesting that, again, more focus what we're hearing, more focus being placed on the pipeline versus just how much do you have out there right now? Um, and I, and I think that's important. And then Stacy, I, you and I have talked about this in the past, but recruit, retain, and develop it. It's gotta be the mantra, right? I mean, when I will tell you, I get asked sometimes to interview sales leaders, uh, for, for job opportunities. And I always say, So what do you think some of the most important things are as a sales leader? And if I don't hear, recruit, retain, and develop or some version of that in their own words, whatever, I, I like, what business are you in? I mean, cause that is the business. And so you stating that the way you stated I thought was, was just so important. Um, I will tell you that years ago had Stephanie, maybe you remember, I don't even know how many years ago we wrote Steve Marks wrote white paper on, um, the Lone Wolf sales person Yeah. And how that is eventually going to die, right? Yeah. That the idea that we would find someone, and yes, unicorns do exist and we all know that unicorn. Right? We all point that, thatStephanie Downs:
That's right.Stacey Kauffman:
Every market has one, right? Yeah.Matt Sunshine:
Right. But they're unicorns. Yeah. That just doesn't, that's not modern day salesStephanie Downs:
It's, I always, I mean, I'm a big sports fan, so I tend to use some sports analogies, but you know, if you're playing basketball, you have to have five players on the court.Matt Sunshine:
You can't field a team of unicorns. Right. You can't, one person isn't gonna make or break you. They might kind of get you a little bit over the edge. Right. 99 to a hundred. Right. They can make that extra difference. They can make the water boil two 11 to 212 degrees. But ultimately you have to be able to feel the team.Stephanie Downs:
Mm-hmm.<affirmative> and everybody on the court has their specialty. Right. They're all interwoven. They all work together, but they all have their specialty to help the overall.Matt Sunshine:
I heard, I heard a stat years ago, I don't know if this is true, so I'm just gonna throw that out there, but like when the Bulls, Chicago Bulls were winning all the championships when Michael Jordan was there and they were winning everything that Steve,Stacey Kauffman:
That was a great time. I was a nineties bulls kid and now I'm in Northern California and you know, were the play by play for the Golden State Warriors with Steve Ke as the coach. So keep going. I'm loving it.<laugh>,Matt Sunshine:
I I was the sales manager at the flagship station for the Bulls in Chicago in 95 and 96. I mean, that's like, that'sStacey Kauffman:
That was like the greatest time ever. I heard the statistic years later that Steve Kerr average that season two to three points per game. That's all the average was two to three. And that the margin of victory, the average margin of victory of the bulls during the regular season was like two points per game. It was something crazy like that, that you could pull out this analogy of yeah, everyone matters and Michael's the star and Scotty's this and Dennis that. But if it wasn't for Steve Kerr and the role that he played there would be no national championship. And I might have a little bit of that wrong, but it does make you realize that every single person on the team plays an impact. Makes a bigStephanie Downs:
Impact. Yeah. For sure.Stacey Kauffman:
Which is why the engagement is so important, right? Because yeah. It's like we say this all the time, look left, look right. Like it's not the other guy that's gonna, We need all of you doing it. Right. We need all of us firing and all cylinders to be successful. Frankly, every role in the building, even outside of sales, Right? That's a big part of my role is connecting the dots for people to understand how important engineering is. Right. Or the traffic department. I mean, every group,Stephanie Downs:
You couldn't do it without themStacey Kauffman:
Programming and sales or programming and traffic. All these literally every single piece. And it's one of the things, um, that I did when I first came to the market is showing the workflow of how we start and end this business the entire cycle so that every person to, if it's, you know, an office administrator to the traffic person Yeah. Et cetera, they all understand that their role is required mm-hmm.<affirmative> and relied upon for us to be successful. Which also I think helps with the engagement piece too, because they realize that they are connected to that north star. Yeah. They decide to not show up. There's a, there's an effect to that.Matt Sunshine:
Stephanie and I saw a, um, we had a, we were fortunate enough to be, uh, to be in a meeting where a guy that was a former Navy SEAL was presenting. Yeah. And, and one of the things that he said and what makes he goes, what makes the Navy Seals elite is that they never have to look to their left or right. They absolutely positively know that the person to the left and the person to Right. Is doing their job at the highest possible level and they never, ever, ever have to worry about it. And because of that, they can move forward with speed and accuracy and imagine a, a work environment mm-hmm.<affirmative> where you never had to worry about Yeah. All those other, That's engagement. That's everyone having the buy in. I love it.Stephanie Downs:
That is important.Stacey Kauffman:
Getting it.Stephanie Downs:
Yeah. But recognizing the importance of and is starting to take steps is it's the first, It's like planning a tree. Ideally 30 years ago would've been the perfect time to plant a tree the next best time today,<laugh>. Absolutely. Yeah. So just, uh, question on engagement and then I'm gonna, um, ask you just one final thought. But what are some other things, cuz I mean, we all obviously all recognize the importance of engagement from retention and that, you know, what it leads to performance and revenue and what are some other things that you are doing internally to help with that? I love what you said, everybody understanding their role and how it, you know, leads to the North Star. What are some other actions or steps you're taking? Yeah. Any tips or suggestions for people on that?Stacey Kauffman:
Sure. Um, I, there's a few, We have an employee engagement team in our market, so of non-managers. Yeah. So that, you know what, when I started this a few years ago, what I found was, you know, our managers, we all have great intentions. Yeah.<laugh>. But, but it is a thing that kind of, the further up that you go, that you do can get a little bit disconnected, not because you want to, because that's not your job anymore. Right. And so when we're making decisions with department heads or something and we, it's really well intended, sometimes it misses in the execution because there's a thing that no one in the room knows is a thing knows. Right. And so that's been really helpful for us is having, so in every department, one employee who's not a manager sits on that team. I meet with them mon monthly and it's an opportunity to surface, you know, it's, it's just an open dialogue and forum where they can surface or their department, if there's someone that doesn't, you know, wants to be anonymous about something or surfacing feedback, Right? Yeah. And feeling heard and, and maybe they want it to be in that setting or it's also an opportunity for us to test things like, Hey, we're thinking about this. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, would this be a value? Or, you know, because we wanna be efficient and effective. So kind of testing or trial ballooning some ideas for employee engagement or culture or even process, you know, taking some of those traffic and sales battles and like, let the employee engagement team do it. We don't need to do it. They, they're the one doing all the things right. Let's let them solve the problems by someone who's been nominated from their department for being someone who's seen as a floor leader. Right. It's also a great kind of path option too, if someone's not sure if they wanna be in management. Right. It's a little teeny little test of this is the kind of stuff that you might be doing. Yeah. Uh, so that's been really helpful. We also take to them, you know, it's October now, so it's, what are we doing, for example, for Halloween or right now we're in the middle of Hispanic Heritage month. Um, we are working on and preparing for Native American Heritage Month. What are the ways that we can involve the team and create, um, you know, a sense of belonging for everyone as well as using these amazing, incredible resources that we have to make a positive difference. And I found that our social impact work has a lot to do with engagement, right? Yes. Now it has to be authentic and credible and we have to work it out. So we have a diversity equity inclusion team, one on the company, which I'm co-chair of, and then as well as in both of my markets, we have that team as well that's looking at what are ways that we can use our resources and lend our microphones to stories that should be told and voices that should be heard. And of course everyone does PSAs and their, you know, public affair shows and things like that. But what we've found is, especially coming out of the pandemic, right, there's that greater sense of desire for purpose and belonging and making an impact and what better business than what we do in audio and radio to be able to truly impact so many people with our organization and with the resources that we have. And so I think that's something that's really important, something I'm very passionate about, but also it is a great engagement tool. And because people can see in a different way how they can use their role or the resources that we have to make a positive difference in things that they care about and things that we collectively care about. So whether that's using our volunteering time, right, or deciding, you know, what, how we're going to support this cause or what we're going to do. Those are, um, employee engagement tools. And then the other piece in to go kind of back to sales is the accountability. And it's the just, it's just the transparency. And for me that's both in our staff meetings because I think everyone in the building is responsible for revenue, right? Yeah. As well as well as, you know, the sales leadership in the sales meetings. And it's, it's showing, it's letting everyone know where we are. Data and numbers are neutral. There's not a motion, Right? They don't have emotion, they're just things mm-hmm.<affirmative>. But we attach the emotion to it and we attach the feelings to it. And if we would just look at it for what they are, which are resources that help us make better decisions and remove the emotion would actually help us do our jobs better. Yeah. And get the results we want faster. And so people sometimes are like, Oh, Stacy, like you just, you know, you just love the data. No, I don't love the data. I love what the data does for me,Stephanie Downs:
But the data does tell a story. Right.<laugh>,Stacey Kauffman:
That's what I love about it. Yeah. So I'm not fixated on the fact, you know, that I have to go into Salesforce or something to like, I'm not worried about the process of that. I'm focused on what I want out of it. And I think for sales executives sometimes, right? Like who wants to be in a CRM system? Well I did and I do because I understand that it helps me do my job better and faster.Stephanie Downs:
They have to understand that piece, right? They have to know how they can use it to help with the, you know, their position and how it helps them sell more and be better and make data driven decisions.Stacey Kauffman:
Exactly. But I think it's really important that we all know where we stand collectively and individually and, you know, we celebrate successes in victories. We celebrate Nice. Um, you know, as a team and individually and, but we, you know, everyone sees the standings every week. And I think keeping score is important. We are a sales organization. Yeah. Right. We need to perform. And if we don't know where we are starting from, how do we think we're gonna,Stephanie Downs:
How do you knowStacey Kauffman:
That in the tank to get where we need to go?Stephanie Downs:
It's just really that simple. Yeah.Stephanie Downs:
We do have to know the direction we're going. Oh, see, So I loved all of your comments related to engagement, transparency, um, everybody having a voice, getting to share what they think and being part of the outcome. Um, mission, everybody on the same page. There were so many good examples you gave there of what engagement really is. Um, and as Matt said at the beginning of our call, that we knew that this was gonna be an insightful call and it was. So thank you Matt. Any final or wrap up as we, uh, finish upMatt Sunshine:
Oh fi final, um, just kind of statement and then, and then I'll wrap it up, is that I think everything that you said on the, um, on the, on the engagement and the culture is so important. And, and you said one thing, I just wanna highlight it cuz I I know it to be true, especially with you, is it's gotta be authentic and it is with you. But yeah, the, the big mistake for anyone listening, uh, to this would be to think, Oh, I just need to make sure that I'm making sure, No, it's not about check in a box. It's about really believing and, and doing what's authentic and real. And, and I think you said it great, but I just really wanted to highlight that. So Stacy, thank you so much for joining us. We cannot thank you enough. Um, you are, you're a, you're a awesome representative for your company and, uh, they're lucky to have you. And if you want to connect with Stacy, we'll put her LinkedIn information in the show notes so that you can, you can, uh, get a hold of her that way. And, uh, we look forward to, uh, to, uh, bringing you future episodes of the Improving Sales Performance, uh, podcast soon. This has been improving sales performance. Thanks for listening. If you like what you heard, join us every week by clicking that subscribe button. For more on the topics covered in the show, visit our website, the center for sales strategy.com. There you can find helpful resources and content aimed at improving your sales performance. And if you'd like to connect with any of us, including today's guests, please do. You can find our contact information in the show notes. Until next time, get out there and sell.